Hi one and all,
When scanning the net I often come across photos of 109s with a pipe` slung under the fuselage as below:-
and as a different variant/colour scheme
.
They both seem to be 109T variants and I have read somewhere that they are part of a demisting experiment, but demisting what?
Any info gratefully received,
regards Gary[8-]
Hey Garyallum
I saw this plane. There was an episode on The military channel all about the development of Luftwaffe experimental aircraft. You are right it is a demisting tube but my old brain can not remember exacly what it was suppose to do. I think it was suppose to have something to do with engine performance. It might have been a crude type of water intercooler instead of an air to air cooler. When you compress air you heat it a very unwanted side effect. The water sprayed across the fins cools much better than air. I can not see how having that pipe hanging off the side of the plane could help a plane that already had drag issues. I am going to go crazy now because I cannot remember exacly what it was for darnit! If I bang my head and it comes back to me I will repost.
Soulcrusher
Hi Again Soulcrusher,
Perhaps that explains these pix that I have.I thought that it might be somthing to do with air compression or ram effect, but a cooling or condensing effect might be equally plausable.
Regards Gary[8-]
Both those 109’s are EX aircraft, no unit marking or code exist on them. Seeing that the luftwaffe never saw a idea they didn’t like the first one could be anything. I know alot about inservice 109 stuff, but lack somewhat in the prototype/EX stuff. they were into so much stuff it’s hard for anyone to know what all they were doing. I do get into the prototype/Ex Focke-Wolf stuff but not so much the Messerschmitt. Never the less I am going to guess at these 2.
The first one 109T. Most likely it was a smoke generator. Messerschmitt did built 40 T-2 and use some to test carrier based weapons. They would use the smoke to hide the carrier for view and confuse the emeny gunners. This is just a guess, I have never seen that on a 109 before and have very little knowledge of the T varient myself.
The second pic of the G-10 with no weapons is most likely a messerschmitt high altitude prototype or engine test bed. the pipe you see on the side runs from the supercharger intake to either another supercharger or some other engine inhancing device in the rear fuselage directally behind the pilot. I know they expermented with intercoolers, muilt stage supercharging, turbosupercharging, and every type of foced induction they could think of (as did focke wulf). I have seen this set up on G-14, G-10, and a K-4 109’s test aircraft. Without looking into it further I couldn’t tell you for sure what exact device they were testing on this subject. If you plan on building this I could most likely sniff around and find out more.
If this was a Focke wulf aircraft I’d have you covered. I think I have info/pics Of every prototype and EX project they came up with up to and including the Ta 152 super H with the jumo 222 and the correct laminer profile wing. I am more knowledgable in tanks stuff than willy[:)]
Ok now you have me totally stumped there garyallum. I have never seen these pictures. Mabye ther is a intercooler in that extension and inside the cockpit the air is routed back up to the supercharger. This is only a guess. I only say this because of my work on turbo and supercharged automobiles. Like I said in the first thread compressing air creates alot of heat. You always want the air going into the engine being as cool as possible. Denser air contains more oyxgen. If you can force more oxygen in the engine you can force more fuel in and BAM! more power. The fuel air ratio must remain at a constant on cars it is about 14 to 1. It probally was a little different for those huge V12’s. But the same theory applies. You can not add more fuel unless you can add more air. Just adding a compressor only partially helps because of the heating effect. To get maximum effect of the compressor you have to recool the compressed air you just heated. I know they experiemented with it on the FW 190V 18. They were basiclly trying to build a P 47 Thunderbolt! Take the most powerfull engine you have. Put the biggest air compress you can fit on it cool the compressed air then feed it to the engine with massive amounts of fuel. There is no other way to make more horsepower than that. Of course this is all assuming that there is a intercooler in that huge tube.
Soulcrusher
Hi Pheonix,
Nice idea on the T series photo. I hadn`t thought of smoke generation but obvious in a naval context. disguise and defence in one operation.
As this bunch of photos show the pipe feeds down just behind the oil cooler and is supported just before the tail, just right for exuding smoke heated from the engine and released well away from the canopy. This presumes that the smoke is a form of oil like as used in model railways and disco machines.
As to the G, I have read of a 2nd engine etc buried in the rear fuselage but I can`t see any exhausts on the rear area, and etra fuel would be a problem, but would high altitude recon/photo be an option for oprational use with this intake?
Answers opinions assumptions etc all considerd, lets face it these photos have stumped the Xperts on dedicated forums, and if they cant be deffinate then why cant we have some fun
Regards all, Gary[8-]
I have just looked again at these pictures and there seems to be something belt driven in the close up of the front of the “pipe” and it looks hollow?
I know for a fact they did have a 109 rigged to emit smoke, but have never seen a pic and don’t know how it works. I also can’t remember where I found this tid bit of info. for all I know I could be way off. I also know they were messing with the blown flaps set up as well, and again have never seen pics and have very limited knowledge on this set up. This was to help with landings somehow.
The other 109 I’m sure is a test platform for a performance improving device. Messerschmitt did alot of testing with supercharging and other stuff I mentioned. RLM had requirments for a high alitiude/high performance fighter. Messerschmitt was working on the Bf 109H and Me 209 concept. they wanted a engine to go with it. They tested alot of different engines but the DB605L muilt stage supercharging engine showed the best promise. It took air in where the scoop was on every other 109 (save work and time) and ducted to a supercharger behind the pilot. Then ducted back to the engine internally. If it has a intercooler it would have a addintional intake in the rear attached to the under belly of the number 1 fuselage segment. This set up proved too heavy and took up needed fuel space in the small 109. The performace gains in the 109 were little. It would have worked better in the larger ME 209, but Messerschmitt lost the contract to kurt tanks better design which became the Ta 152.