Did the 5 SS Paz Div Wiking ever have any Ausf A late Panthers in the Easter Front in the winter of 1944-1945??
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they did but a friend says they didn’t and the Panthers of that Div at that time were “G” not “A” but he’s not ever sure.
Been thinking of doing one sometime down the road but didn’t want to build the wrong with the wrong markings so I’m asking you guys.
Thanks for any help!!
Its certainly possable that some Ausf A’s survived late into 1944 and even 45. But most of the pics i can find are clearly in spring/sumer and those that look to be autumn/winter don’t say when in the year so could be early in 44. Even if they did, you would need to get a pic of one to be sure you have the right markings.
But, the Div lost all its armour in the Korsun salient. It fought for some time as a battlegroup but was then pulled back to Poland and re-built. This was during the summer of 1944 and new tanks would most likey have been Ausf G’s.
According to Nafziger’s OOB in April 44, afer they were pulled out, they did have one tank regiment fully equipped with Panthers. These must have been given to the Div after came out of the pocket in Feb. These could have been A’s from other units or new G’s.
Thanks, that’s what my friend said about replacing them with G’s.
Crap. I have a A and some great Archer Fine Transfers for the A that I planed to use but will use a different setting for the Panther. Maybe I could make it early 44 and get away with it.
The problems a modler has to go though just to build a model…
The only panther kit I have is a dragon in 1/35 and it’s the American model so I’m always looking for them. I came across a pic of one fighting in the streets of Berlin it mentioned the Hitler Plaza was in the background not sure if that ss fought in berlin?
Lol that’s for sure I spend more time researching than building.
Eastern front was so brutall I read a lot of first hand accounts and the Korsun pocket was really horrible place to be.
Some of the most brutal story’s come out of those pockets. The Russians would just pound them with artillery mersally.
The Germans normally didn’t get out of those pockets with there equipment it sounds like every thing was smashed. Especially later in the war.
Unless I’m building a paper panzer, I typically don’t build anything without a photograph of two to prove authenticity.
Just my[2cnts], but a good practice…
I want to say that the Panthers that relieved Kowel were model G and even some D variants
When you say American model, do you mean the ersatz. If so, these were G’s.
Wiking wasn’t in Berlin, it finished the war in Austria. It was the Nordland Div that fought in the capital.
5th SS Panzer Division Wiking served in Poland to help put down the Warsaw Uprising in July, 1944. From there, it served in Budapest in January, 1945, escaping to Austria. The Division surrendered there. And, I did find one photo ostensibly labelled “Wiking Panther A, Fall 1944-Winter 1945.” It was a B&W photo with the tank apparently in a coat of dark yellow. However, the glacis plate and the early cupola showed that the tank really was an Ausf. D.
However, it is entirely possible that there were “A’s” in Wiking at the time. Indeed, given the chaotic nature of the war at that point, I have even seen “D’s” in service on the different fronts in late 1944-1945. I wouldn’t rule it out.
Bill Morrison
Oops I didn’t catch that. spell check threw that in its supposed to say it’s a panther A model.
I should have realised that really.
There were definetly earlier models of tanks still in use at the very end. There is a well known Tiger I which is i think an early production being used in Berlin in 1945. Many of these had been relegated to training units after being sent back to Germany for major overhaul. But of course, if a units vehilce was not badly damaged, there would be no reason to replace it just for some small improvments especially with things so dire as they were in late 44 and into 45.
The problem is, if you want to do it accuratly, you need a photo of a vehicle in a certain place at a certain time to be sure.
With a unit like the Wiking which is was so badly mauled they needed to be re-equipped from scratch, it is possable that some of those vehicles could have come from units being withdrawn for a complete re-fit, and so they could still have had earlier vehicles even after there own had been destroyed.
Here’s what I had hoped to do. The Archer Fine Transfer is for Panther Ausf A 5 of 5 SS Wiking. It says 522. Dark Yelow with mottled winter camo Hungery , 1945.
I’ve been trying to track that down because I really wanted to use that transfer and do some mottled winter camo on the Panther.
That will help. I can’t do much at the moment as i am at work and restricted to what sites i can go on, but will have a look tonight.
They would have had an Ausf A number 522 in late 43 early 44. So just finding a photo of that type with that number wouyld not be evidance unless itcan be confirmed in in Hungary.
I believe this to be the vehicle in question, however no date or identifying info for the photo is given;
I’m fairly certain I have seen this photo with a Bundesarchiv stamp at the bottom, but a quick search of the Bundesarchiv database did not produce this image. Another shot of 522, identified as belonging to Wiking, can be found on page 61 of Squadron’s SS Armor.
Thanks. I found 2 pictures of 521 in snow camo like the one you posted with snow on the ground and it said they were taken outside Budapest in early 1945.
That picture is good enough for me as long as an Panther “A” will work. I’m just building it for me and not a museum.
Does anybody think that besides the snow camo on that tank some of it is a little dark to be “dark yellow”? Makes me wonder if is is a 3 color camo under the snow camo.
Thanks again!!
I would guess that it is a variant of the three-color scheme under the winter whitewash. I would further guess that any color under the whitewash would have been very sloppy as German forces had very little time for the niceties of a professional finish.
Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icq4mwVu744
heres some film from the battle of Kowel, It should be the panther unit that was refitting in Germany. anyways hope this helps
I know it’s not nice to direct members to other forums, but when it comes to historical accuracy questions, you can almost always bet it has been discussed at length at some point over at missing-lynx.
I’ve looked at few search results there, seems to be the opinion Wiking never did get any Panther G’s, and was at the receiving end of the last production batch of the A’s.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/search?searchterm=Kovel+wiking&sort=match
regards,
Jack
However, I have seen several photos purported to be Wiking Panther G’s dated Winter, 1945. I simply did a search for 5 SS Panzer Division Panther Tanks 1944-1945. Hundreds of photos come up, all labelled *Wiking, Eastern Front,*Winter 1944-1945. Many of these are clearly G’s. The rest seem to be A’s, but they are not clear.
Bill
Interesting. The G was introduced in, off the top of my head, April/May, so its certainlypossable Wiking was fully re-equipped with the last A’s. But to go through the rest of the war without getting any new tanks, i find that strange.
Will have to check out that link tonight.