Thanks again Ed, you are invaluable. Now looking at your old post, you mentioned that the torpedo tubes were incorrect. What do I do to correct them or where can I get replacements? The torpedoes will be an iatrical part of this dio. Also does L’Arsenal have the single barrel 20mm guns and correct 40mm guns by themselves? I couldn’t find them.
Steve
After work tonight I will go upstairs and check the torpedo tubes & refresh my memory. I have slept (not too well or too often) since I wrote the changes needed.
However, since I wrote about the L’Arsenal Sullivans upgrade set, a new aftermarket company, Alliance Modelworks (google them), has been producing some nice things
They make twin Bofors in resin & brass. They also make shielded & unshielded quad 40s.
Their 20mm set includes both single & twin guns
Also since I wrote, 3D printing has exploded. You need a crew for the guns?
several sets
I have not personally seen these, but they look interesting.
Google shapeways 1:350
While you’re at Shapeways look at the spme of the replacement parts for a 1:350 Fletcher … different pilot house shapes for Beth Steel or Bath Iron built boats!, deck rings, replcement 5"/38s.
Thanks Ed, I just ordered the number set from Ironshipwrights. I’ll check Shapeways for the guns and crew. I will need crew. I don’t want to make a ghost ship.
Sorry for posting the RN hull numbers, it didn’t hit me that they were Royal Navy, until you said that, Steve. [:$]
Ed, looking at several Fletcher Class photos, I’m guessing that the 40mms were twin and not quad mounts. I will get those gun packs probably next month, they are a very resonable price.
The 3D crew is also resonalbly priced. I will grab the Boffers crew and the Dungree set as well. I will be building the (USS) Prinz Eugen at Bikini before Operation Crossroads this year and need a few guys for that as well.
You are correct WRT the twin 40mms.
Destroyer History dot Org has a neat graphic showing the progress of the Fletcher armament http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/armament/
If you locate the Johnston, you will see that she had 5x5-inch, 10x40mm, and 10xTT. The 10x40mm references the number of gun tubes, not the number of mounts. In this instance the allocation is 1-twin each P&S ahead of the bridge, 1-twin each P&S midships waist, and 1 in the raised tub betweer 5-inch mounts 53 and 54.
The quad 40s were used in the ultimate anti-Kamikaze armament mod, and then were used without shielding due to weight considerations.
Steve,
This sounds like a helluva diorama! “The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors”.
While Ed is here, I’ll ask if anyone makes a resonable John C. Butler class of DE? Might like to try the USS Samuel B. Roberts sometime.
Gary
Ed, that is a fascinating website, and you are a wealth of information. Without your help I’m sure my little Fletcher would end up looking like some abstract piece of junk, kinda like those carved wooden “ships” you find at craft stores for nick knacks.
This also answers my question about the number of 20’s
“When the 10-barrel 40mm configuration began appearing after mid-1943, with the two new 40mm mounts replacing all 20mm forward, the number of 20mm was reduced and standardized at seven—four in the waist and three together in a heart-shaped gun tub on the fantail” ( http://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/arm_7/ )
The only question I had left was regarding the smoke generators (Mk 10?). I know they were situated next to the depth charges on the fantail. I need to look closer at my kit tonight when I get home, but do you know if those are correct on the Trump kit? Also, while laying smoke, did the fletchers also produce smoke (black) from the stacks as well as the SG’s?
Steve
No, no Butler-class models in larger (i.e. 1:350 scale) either plastic or resin. PitRoad makes (made) them in 1:700 scale plastic.
In 1:350 scale you can get to one, or a very close approximation of one with the Trump USS England kit of a Buckley-class DE. From what I posted on Hyperscale last fall in answer to the same question.
The DE hulls were pretty uniform. The different de classes were differentiated largely by their propulsion plant and their armament. If you are anal enough – add a scale inch to the beam and 16.5 scale feet to the waterline length. Length overall was the same
References: NAVSOURCE.ORG. Look at the Butler class photos for reference. Do not focus just on the Roberts. The Squadron DEs Inaction and Floating Drydocks Destroyer Escorts of WWII both have line drawings (plan & elevation) of Butlers.
5"/38s. Obtain some single-knuckle 5-inch guns from aftermarket supplier or Tamiya Fletcher (a bit undersized). You want mounts 52, 53, 54. Mounts 51 and 55 were reinforced for the superfiring gun and have a different shape. Trump Sullivans’ suck.
Cut down bridge IAW reference drawings. Buckley had a high bridge. The Butlers a low bridge.
Hedgehog; superfiring over the forward 5-inch mount. From the Buckley kit
40mm Twins. Go tho the aftermarket. The Tamiya Fletcher only has one and those in the Trump Sullivans suck. You also need the Mk51 directors/tubs. Check references
20mm guns & tubs. A pair mounted high & low on either side of the stack. Check references. Another pair on the fantail. Don’t forget the ready service lockers. Again, these are best sourced from the aftermarket.
Depth charge K-guns & ready racks. 4 per side. Relocate those from the Buckley, more forward and closer together.
Triple torpedo tube bank – from the Buckley kit
Trunked stack – from the Buckley kit
Remove molded-on tubs on the deck & superstructure. Replace with strip styrene or brass.
Any additional questions/comments may deserve a new thread
Looking at these again, the Trumpeter & Tamiya are similar and are probably acceptable. Both have separate crew protection can which goes on the aft torpedo mount to protect them from the superfiring 5-inch muzzle blast.
Both of the L’Arsenal tubes come with the can. But when you sand it off you are left without a semblance of the control station
Also found the tubes from Blue Water Navy and Yankee Modelworks. The BWN is white metal and the individual tubes are attached to a metal saddle. The control station is PE and fitted afterwards.
The YMW tubes are resin. with separate cans. Nicely done.
As far as the smoke generators, those in the Trumpeter kit are two little fiddley bits which are glued together then each are attached to mounting slots on the stern. Check your photo references - early on they were narrowly spaced. Later the depth-charge rails were placed farther apart to to facilitate the addition of a pair of ready service DC racks. The smoke generators were also spread a bit wider apart.
This is reputed to be the Hoel and Johnston at Samar. No confirmation, but if you choose to go this route, then by all means and tell anyone who questions you to prove you are wrong
Thanks Ed, like you said, the Trump tubes are acceptable so I’ll go with those. That is a beautiful bow wave in that pic.
Stack and generator smoke it is then.
I just ordered Tom’s PE set and AM’s twin 40’s. Later as I’m ending the project I’ll get AM’s 20’s and the 3D crew. This should get me started.
Looking at the kit, the 5 in look like they need some work like adding blast bags and hopefully Tom’s PE set has ladders for them. The smoke generators are tiny, but look acceptable. Now hopefully I can do justice to the guys and their sacrifice.
Steve
Knowing your work, that won’t be an issue…those still alive will appreciate it, and those that gave all will smile from above that they are remembered…
I started the Johnston this weekend.
I’m going to start with the base.
First, I cut out the foam for the hull.
I then shaved out some waves and the wake swells and applied acrylic gel.
I then added paper towel and covered that with more acrylic gel. I’m using paper towel this time instead of paper strips. This should form a little better that paper.
The paper tower/paper is used to smooth out the texture of the foam. Once this dries, I will sand the surface and apply a little more gel to build up the waves.
More to come.
Steve
The article I referred to is in the Feb. issue of WWII History. Nice account, but no pics of your baby. Some nice cruiser shell splashes though…
That’s the resent issue?
Yep, should be on the racks now. My BiMart carries it.
I’ll have to look to see who may carry it here in Boise.
An update.
I sanded the base a little (it’s a little weird cause it’s like sanding rubber) to get the peaks down and applied another coat of gel. This time I added some to the bow waves to build them up.
Next will be the base coat of blue.
Steve
I’ve started on the hull and guns. I received the 40’s and 20’s and wow they are really detailed. It took me several hours to complete the 5 40mm gun platforms and it will take several more hours to finish 6 more 20’s.
I raised the barrels of the 5”s to keep an aim on the Kumano do to the list of the ship during its turn and added blast bags.
For the base I painted the blue, sprayed some turquoise in the wake and added some cotton to the whitecaps and wake. My idea is to add some white disturbance just under the surface. I have added 4 coats of high gloss varnish and will be adding several more coats.
Steve
