I have two Tamiya kits of the Quad Gun Tractor. One includes the 25 pounder gun and the other is just the gun tractor. The problem is that the paint scheme for the Canadian 1st Infantry Division is different in each kit. One says the body colour is Dark Yellow the other says the body colour is Dark Green (same decals for both “colours”) Which is correct? Is either one correct?
The main reference I have for Canadian WWII military vehicles (The Canadian Soilder D-day to VE-day) does not show any pictures or specifications for the Canadian Ford Field Gun Tractor (the Tamiya version) only the Chevrolet CMP FAT 4 (old Italeri kit), but on one page in an organizational chart it shows a profile of what is clearly the Canadian Ford FGT. So did the Canadian army use it or not and where?
Yes both colour schemes were used with the same markings. The difference is the Theater of Operations. The 1st lost 500 vehicles to enemy action in Italy and were re-supplied with vehicles from British stocks so that accounts for one variation.
I would suggest if you can locate a copy of September 2006 Military Modelling Vol. 36 No. 11 there is a fantastic article by Steve Guthrie on Canadian Camouflage Colours.
To get your colours to the Canadian Standard here are the suggested acrylic matches.
KHAKI GREEN No.3/ MIDDLE BRONZE GREEN No.23 - 4 x Tamiya XF-67 NATO GREEN 2 x Model Master 4673 Leather
DARK TARMAC No.4 - Tamiya XF-27 Black Green
STANDARD CAMOUFLAGE COLOUR No.1a - 4 X Model Master 4608 Raw Umber 2 x Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black
STANDARD CAMOUFLAGE COLOUR No2/“Service Colour” - 4 x Modelmaster 4674 Leather 4 x Model Master 4608 Raw Umber or Straight Vallejo 141 English Uniform
LIGHT MUD - 4 X Tamiya XF-49 Khaki 3 x Tamiya XF-2 Flat White 1 X Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black
SCC 14 - 4 X Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black 1 X Tamiya XF-2 Flat White
SCC 15 OLIVE DRAB - 4 X Tamiya XF-58 Olive Green 3 X Tamiya XF-62 Olive Drab
Mr. Guthrie further notes “All these colours are matched to actual paint chips. For modelling purposes and scale effect, they should be lightened 10-20%” and “Note: I don’t know what Tamiya Khaki Drab XF-51 is supposed to be. A ‘muddy-brownish grey?’ It looks like no paint I’ve ever come across in relation to Second World War Canadian Vehicles.”
In conjunction with the Canadian Soldier book and the above you should be able to get what you need to finish your paint.
Now the other reference I would suggest is a visit to the website ARMOURED ACORN. It has a lot of references for Canadian Vehicles.
A friend of mine in the publishing game here in Canada is currently working on publishing a reference I am putting together Modelling the Canadian Army in World War II. It is going to include references to paint schemes, markings, uniforms etc. etc. and a whole ton of reference listings of articles, books, etc. as well as a set of colour chip references similar to those found in the article.
I am definitely interested in that publication! And thanks for the colour call out on the Gun Tractor. I have that kit in my stash and had decided to do it up in Canadian Livery. I was soooo worried it was going to need to be plaid… [:-^]
These are some great formulae but I have a couple of questions (if im posting in an inappropriate place please let me know)
Being new to historicals and to this forum - I have to ask - how do I find out which vehicles should be painted which of the above colours? I am a good painter so technique will not the issue - I just lack the knowlege as to what goes where
I am going to be doing RCA in 15mm scale (Flames of War) - European Theatre. My grandfather was on a 25pounder and I want to do it right so that he will be pleased.
James
PS - I will likely want at least one copy of that book as well.
First off welcome to the forums! You can always find an answer here. Now to answer your question for NW European Campaign. You will want to use the Khaki Green No.3 and Dark Tarmac No. 4 as mentioned above. to create the MTP 20 Pattern. Now as far as the “what colour goes where?” You need to add some reference to your workbench, but to help you out.
The Dark Tarmac is used on all the upper (seen from above) surfaces and the Khaki Green is used below. Where the two colours meet is similar to an outline of Mickey Mouse Ears in the Dark Tarmac. Hence the camouflage pattern nickname “Mickey Mouse” pattern.
Hope this helps. Post some pictures when you’re done.
So I was over visiting with my Grandfather picking his brain and looking through his reference library of ww2 and militaria and he has confirmed that the colour of the #3 green looks good to his reccolections but that the camo pattern was not in use amoungst those he came in contact with. He suggested that it was more of a brit specific thing as the canadians were supplied with the green vehicles and any sense of camo was left up to them with whatever they may have had on hand - otherwise they mostly just went with the green. Anyhoo I will start a thread when I have a chance to share what he has told me with everyone and if there are questions for him let me know.
You have one of the best references available. Personal reference from someone who “was there” beats any book. Tap that resource and make notes on anything you can ask. First hand accounts by Veterans are sadly becoming fewer and fewer as the Veteran population ages and passes away. Enjoy the visits and the recollections you will never read anything as personal.
Just completed this model and it came out OK given my recent comeback to modeling. However, the decals in general were poor I found and the ones for the Canadian Army 1st Infantry Division were werecked. Does anyone know where I can download replacements for printing myself?
I would also be interested in a copy of the upcoming book on Canadian Military for WW2
I sort of lost this thread for a while even though I started it. I completed the Tamyia quad plus the gun and limber a few years ago. I did it in the British North Africa coolous. It came out quite nicely. I intend to build another in Canadian colours next. Plus working on an Italeri CMP gun tractor also to be in Canadian colours.
