all i have to say is go and ask the pilots and air crews what they thought of it
Wow, what a bunch of great responses. There are lots of great opinions, to which i will add my two cents worth. I read somewhere, and if i get this wrong, please correct me. Some historian wrote that without the bombing campaign there would have been 500.000 high callibre flak guns plus their crews. This plus the Germans substantially increased production during the campaigain. What would an additional 500-1000 surpurb Panthers and Tigers have done to the soviets.
Now someone pointed out, and again correct me if i was wrong, that true success came when we destroyed the oil producing facilities. A mechanized army runs on oil, no oil, no army.
Just my unlearned opinion. Bill[;)]
Sorry, i forgot to add those flak guns could have been used on the eastern front. My bad. Bill
I think to sum it all up,someone needs to ask the Ambassator for North Vietnam.The history channel did a piece on the Veitnam war.They asked him if he tought that they would lose the war,in his words he said,"We had to get Kissingger back to the peace table because of operition linebacker.The 2 weeks of bombing nearly destoryed us and if the Americans had bombed us again for just 1 more week,we would have surrendered uncondistionally."When we bombed Hanoi,they were putting up cardboard fronts to show that we did not hurt them.I think that this shows the strategic bombing works,one thing in war you have to do is;take away the emenys abillitys to wage war.This is what Sherman did in the civil war when he cut his path so no one could use anything against him.I can gurrinttie you that if Germany had the long range bombers that we had the Russian would be speaking German today and so would the Brits.But pride got the best of Hitler when a lone Brittish bomber accidenttly bombed Brelin,so Hitler bombed London.Now the Jappanise were different,they fought down to every last man,woman and child.I think that we could have used a navail blockade and contiuned bombing to bring them to surrinder.So looking at basic facts of war,stratigic bombing does work.Digger
ok imoi nobody has remembered that the germans had moved their factories into the Hartz mountains,after the bombing started. Britian would of starved without our liberty ships supppling ther nation. Japan had a whole world of high tech war capability in their mountains too. Which American intel totally misssed. What stopped the germans at stalingrad was the worst winter on record. Just getting the facts straight. 
War is hell! The fact is that even though the firebombings and atomic bombings were horendous, their phsycological effects were useful. When Hirohito was ready to surrender, so were the civilians. When the allies marched through western Europe the civilians were not resisting. The strategic bombings were a success because they hindered the aggressor nation’s ability to wage war and diminished the people’s support for their vile leaders.
Anyone, and this seams to be the guilt ridden view of many far removed people now a days, can look back and say that LeMay or Liddel were murderers or unmoral commanders, but the fact remains that without these bombings, the human death toll for WWII would have been alot higher than 44 Million.
It is beyond my comprehension how people can now look back at a destructive conflict like WWII, that we did not start, invite, or cause, and hold our past leaders responsible for trying to end it as quickly and swiftly as possible.
The Allies made every possible concession for peace but the simple fact remains that 2 nations decided it was in their best interest to proceed on a war course.
Our leaders did what had to be done to shorten the conflict and save as many Ally lives as possible, and THAT was in our best interest.
Sorry no sympathy here.
Wade
Bigbud I understand your point about the horrible winter hampering the Germans at Stalingrad… but if it would have been just the winter the entire army wouldn’t have been surrounded on the steppe and swallowed up by the Soviet tanks. While the winter played a decisive role, Stalin’s decision to make the city that was his namesake the spot of a great stand can’t be overlooked. The Germans came very close to pushing the Red forces into the Vulga river… but I doubt they would have ever gotten across the river. Once again this is just IMHO, didn’t mean to single you out Bigbud… you do make very good points.
Wade… you said it all there buddy… I’ve never heard it put better.
The Bombing of Germany did shorten the war!. This is evident from letters for example and diary entries by members of the German High Command, discovered subsequently. Soeer also wrote saying so to Harris after the war. In England there is still “official” guilt about the whole incident - no medal having been struck nor official memorial for members of Bomber Command. The treatment of Harris immediately after the war was ungracious. However I have yet to hear anyone blame the German Government (not only Hitler) for allowing the carnage to continue and not surrendering when they had admitted all was lost. The bombing of towns was not to flatten the town concerned but because that is where the the industries the refineries and the communcation and rail centres where located. By bombing these areas not only was production curtailed but also personel had to be deployed there instead of at the “fronts”. No one can seriously believe that Harris enjoyed the bombing - as some politically correct persons here still maintain today - he did not have a free hand but was under the direction of the British Government. Recently we have been vindicated for the sinking of the Bulgrano - by the Captain no less - how much longer though will it take for there to be official recognition of the Bombing campaign. As to Japan the “culture” of the enemy was different. Who else had suicide planes? Hence an extreme measure was undoubtedly needed.
Recently an old gentleman and I engaged in conversation - he was waiting for a bus - I was gardening. He had fought in some of the harder theatres in WWII. Sadly he proclaimed he was grateful that some of his colleagues who had given their lives were not around to see the state of the world today. Living in the UK I can see only too clearly what he meant.
“…But pride got the best of Hitler when a lone British bomber accidenttly bombed Brelin,so Hitler bombed London.”
I couldn’t help but notice this when i was taking another look at the many opinions stated in this topic. The truth of the matter is as follows:
With the RAF reeling from the German onslaught, Hitler missed a major oppourtunity to apply the coup de grace. On September 5th, he ordered the Luftwaffe to bomb English cities, especially London, hoping to to destroy British resolve and bring about a quick surrender. His decision was the end result of an accident. On the night of August 25th a single German bomber (beleived to be in the form of a Heinkel HE-111) headed for the oil facilities in the Thames estuary, strayed off course and dropped bombs on a london suburb. Churchill ordered a retalitory raid on Berlin, and Hitler’s choice to counter-attack against british cities provided the RAF a vital and well-timed respite.
On another note, my earlier response was in no way intended to offend anyone or single out the americans. I’m just rather fed up with documentaries on television that primarily focus on the American efforts in the bombing campaign. But as stated earlier, we shall never forget the sacrifices made by our allies…
“We are not politicians, but model builders.”
Lancaster_Lover, It is sad that the efforts of your countrymen are not brought to light as often as mine. I think the only reason is that we had so many more troops in all areas. It does not diminish the sacrifices made though.
Miduppergunner, it is truly sad that the servicemen of bomber command do not get any recognition. I think it is the same situation as our troops in Vietnam, the people are guilt ridden for no reason and hold the troops responsible for what the government asked them to do.
One thing is for certain, we had more troops than anyone else but we truly are thankful for our allies.
How about a big “HOORAH” for the airmen of Bomber Command!? British and Canadian!
Wade
Its interesting that historians that have never been faced with the anquish of war want to become social libertarians and try to rewrite history to ease the right wing. Like was said before, war is hell, and to win, sacrifices must be made. Nobody wanted to to the job that we did, but we were faced with a do or die situation. We chose leaders like Lemay that put away their social consciences and got the job done. Desert Storm got the same results, we went in, bombed out their ability to produce and supply, and shortened the war thus saving many lives and allowing lives to get back to normal.
Hi, uobroin, and [#welcome].
The two are not mutually exclusive, and the decision not to be interested in politics is, in itself, a political decision. If you doubt this, consider the tens of millions of Germans who decided not to become actively involved in politics in the 1920s and 30s.
Chris.
Great posts, you guys! Keep it up!