Park addresses the site of Virginia’s sinking in his book and shows the nautical charts of the area as it was in 1862 and as it exists now. The site was and still is actually in the channel near Craney Island, but the whole area has changed significantly and the Craney Island of 1862 has been buried within a larger land mass that has been built from the spoil produced by dredging the channel over the years. Park feels that any remains of the ship would have been destroyed by all the dredging.
Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies!I would bet that Lindberg’s current owners are attempting to cash in on the :Pirates of the Carribean" pheneomna to boost sales.
Thought I’d move this up to the top as there is a host of great Historical (USA and Model Kit related) Info.
I have the Life-like/Pyro Monitor and “Merrimack”(read:Virginia) Kit. The Pyro Monitor and “Merrimack” versions seem to be more detailed then the Lindberg kit but are not the same scale. The Monitor is 1/210 and the “Merrimac” is 1/300. As mentioned by JTilley, the Pyro Monitors Turret is in the Wrong spot too.
I want to use the Pyro Monitor but fixing the Turret position is beyond my capability. I could fill in the old Turret position but how do I add the Plating and Rivet detail?
My Options:
Give up and spend money on a Resin kit? Use the Lindberg smaller scale kit (too small)? Or turn the Pyro Monitor version into the USS Canonicus or Passiac or something with a similar hull and Turret placement? I’d need plans to get the best choice and probably have to re-think the scale. However, John Tilley made a Paper Monitor for his Mariner Museum and I’m wondering if the Pyro Monitor deck could be sanded down and the paper deck from the JTilley’s Monitor scaled to fit on top. Might be any easy fix. You lose some detail but the deck plan will be accurate and “Painted”.
Just some thoughts… Any Suggestions?
Jim.
P.S. Lindbergs original Monitor and Merrimack kit was same scale, 1/245. The models in Lindberg Kit 70791 are 1/245 and I believe kit #'s 77257 and 70886 are also. Lindbergs other Kit, # 00718, is a Pyro copy.
P.P.S. I’m gonna get that Robert E. Lee Kit before it’s “gone”.
From up here in the cheap seats it would seem to be pretty straightforward to make a new deck.
Probably better detail.
Cut off and save all of the deck fittings and furniture.
Dont bother with cutting a hole for the turret, just glue it on.
Sadly, with Lindberg, that only means that they labeled them the same scale. Whether they were actually moulded to that scale is a question that remains to be answered.
Those kits dated back to a time when scale accuracy was not a halmark of kit manufacturers. It was not quite to calling a Hurricane a Spitfire or vice versa, but close.
Your Pyro kit has a vertical topsides molded below the edge of the deck I see.
Still. I think you could make a new deck using the original as a pattern, and cut out the deck part of the old one. Or make the whole thing. The plate joints are pretty huge looking.
GM, are you still looking for Civil War ironclads about 14" long? Flagship Models make a lot of them. Also I built a bunch of Resin kits by, I will have to check. The detail on both are super ggood. Here are a few.
This is Flagships Cairo. I saw her at the Vicksburg battlefield.
These are waterline kits & about $35. Flagships are full hull & go about$100 + or- .
These were a lot of fun & easy. I will check who made them, it was one of the big resin makers.
Thanks for the replies.
You are right. A new deck could easily be fitted in. I wanted to keep some semblance of the iron plates and riveting on the deck . That part had me confused until I recalled a post were someone used pieces of tape to simulate hull plating. (White Glue might work for rivet heads? Or were the Rivets Countersunk??) Oh, and the Turret has to Turn!
This is for my Grandson as I expect he will be covering the Civil War sometime next year. He wanted “Bigger” so I am using the Pyro kit because the USS Monitor is a bit larger at 9.77” (1/210) compared to 8.25” (1/245?) for the Lindberg version. He Lives in Virginia, and yea, I know, I should do a CSS Virginia- I plan to get him to do that one with me.
Since he wants “Bigger”, I will probably get the Original Lindberg kit too because It had the CSS Virginia listed as 15” long. If the Virginia was 275’ OA then that’s 1/220 scale. Close to the Pyro Monitors 1/210 scale .
Gene1,
Great Looking Models! Thanks for the Pics. I am Inspired.
Lone Star and Verlinden made Resin waterline Ironclads in 1/200ish. For the Cost of a Lindberg kit I could probably get a Verlinden 1/200 Resin Monitor kit if I could find one. BlueJacket and Flagship are out of my price range at this time.
Capnmac82,
I agree. I do not believe the Lindberg listings of scale on the current kit #77257 are correct. I won’t know the “scale” of the Lindberg kit versions till I get one, and even then it’s conjecture on the real length of the Virginia. I’ll post my Pyro V/S Lindberg findings. Anyway, Good starters for young Kids I would think. They’ll “Float” on a carpet and not many parts to break off.
Jim.
Nino, That’s who I was trying to think of, Verlinden made my waterline kits. They are really nice & I think I only paid from $25 to $40 for each of them, but that has been a few years ago. I still have one to finish, but the rest are gone. I might do them all again.
Bluejacket used to offer plans, the plans that had been old kist plans.
I have a (faded) set og 1/8" =1’-0" (1/96) BJ plans for Monitor. Not a super-detailed set of plans, but the subject is a bit simple, too. Builds up–if memory serves–about 24" long. Bluejacket even makes a 10-12" truck gun of about the rights size.
Right about the time I was cobbling up lists of fittings and some raw material sizes, they announced finding Monitor’s turret, and promised much more detail on the structure (would be really nice to have more info than “grating” for the turret roof). Those announcements also put the brakes on gettingthe verlinden resin kit in 1/35, too.
The shapes are nice and simple, so these are not hugely complicated vessles to scratch build–especially in waterline.
I still want to build at least Mointor, in basswood, with .020 & .010 (2" & 1" to scale) brass sheet stock chemically blakened for the iron plate.
Yea, they had nice Water-Line kits for the price.
I started “collecting” a Stash several years ago in anticipation of retirement. Verlinden kits were still available then. I had the Monitor, Virginia and Keokuk in my wish list. All just a wish now. Glad I got as many old Airfix, Heller, and IMAI Molded kits when I could.
I was a “Stalker” here for many years but never felt capable of any worthwhile input. Really need to thank all the long-time members here on all the suggestions that have been posted over the years. These Learned Gentlemen/ Veterans/ and Model-Builders-Supreme make this one of the very best of the Model Forums. (That means you too Gene!)
Thanks.
Jim.
Jim,
Your point is well taken! There are many of those old contributors whom I miss, John Tilley most of all. Rest in Peace, John.
Bill Morrison
Nino & Bill that was real nice to hear, John was a great writer & nice man. How is retirement for you Bill, or has it started yet ? I think all model builders enjoy retirement more than most people.
Flagship is expensive, but do turn out some beautiful kits. I like the Cairo more than about any, because I have seen her at Vicksburg. They found her, I believe, in about 1958 & raised her in 3 pieces & put back together in about 1962 ??? I’m not sure of the dates. She was sunk with a 5 gal jug of black powder with an electric charge. I think it was the first boat sunk with a mine.
Gene,
My physician testified yesterday strongly supporting my case. The Commissioner of Workers Comp then announced that he will take four weeks to decide. My attorney has my papers to retire with disability once that decision is made.
I have a project that I have been working on . . . the old Constructo HMS Pandora.
Bill
Bill,
It’s kinda weird to say “Good luck with the Disability” but Good Luck anyway. I never knew anyone who got direct benefits of the taxes I pay so I hope you can get that Workers Comp and/or SS payments.
The Constructo HMS Pandora looks like fun. I downloaded a Picture of someone’s model while I was looking for references for the Bounty ( Pandora picked up “survivors” from the Bounty expedition.) It looks like a terrific kit for an exprienced bullder. Seems to be large scale, close to 3 feet long. Even the Ships boat looked as big as the Lindberg Monitor.
Jim.
CapnMac82,
I believe I can answer some questions on the Plastic kits of the C.S.S. Virginia and Union Monitor.
The Prototypes:
The Monitor has been listed as 171’ to 179" OA .
C.S.S. Virginia has been listed as various Lengths. 275’ OA seems most common. (Lengths range from 262’, 275’, 281’ and up.)
The Plastic Kits:
The original Pyro kit(s) was the Merrimac,(Hensforth C.S.S. Virginia), followed by the Monitor. These were re-boxed together by Life-like as kit #09257. I have this kit.
Pyro/Life-like Monitor kit is 9.75” long. This makes it 1/210 scale.
Pyro/Life-Like Virginia is 11” long. This makes it 1/300 scale.
Lindberg reboxed the old Pyro kits as Lindberg Kit #00718 . I believe this helped to create confusion since these kits are the 1/210 and 1/300 scale ships. It appears that Lindberg when re-releasing their own Original kits as 70791, 70886 & 77257, kept the reference of 1/210 scale despite the actual scale of 1/245. See “ Lindberg made their own version” below.
My reference for kit 00718 is Scalemates :
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/1100032-lindberg-718-monitor-and-merrimac
Lindberg made their own version of the Monitor and “Merrimac” with motorized kit # 717M. This kit was re-released again without motor as kit # 70791 and released again as kits # 70886 and 77257. These had a Sea Base/Diorama included. I have access to kits 717m, 70791 and 77257.
The description on Lindberg kit boxes 70791, 70886 and 77257 is incorrect.
The Monitor is listed as 8 ¼” but is said to be 1/210! The Lindberg Monitor kit is actually 8.37” long. This makes the Monitor 1/245 scale.
The Virginia is listed as 15” long and said to be 1/300 scale. This is incorrect. The Virginia kit is actually 13.26”. This makes the Virginia 1/245 scale. (The Sea base happens to be 15” long on the diagonal.)
Scalemates listed these Lindberg kits incorrectly as 1/210 scale:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/237572-lindberg-77257-civil-war-battle-of-the-monitor-and-merrimac
EDIT: SCALEMATES SEEMS TO HAVE CORRECTED THE SCALE listing of the Lindberg version.
So, which Plastic kit(s) are “Better”?
The Pyro/Life-Like/Lindberg 00718 kits depict the Monitor with the Turret in the wrong place. Also, the Virginia Gun ports are depicted symmetrical Port to Starboard. They should be staggerd Port to Starboard . However, the Surface details are better than the Lindberg versions.
The Lindberg version is not as detailed as the Pyro kits, Virginia gun ports are not staggered either, BUT the kits are a consistent scale of 1/245. And the Monitor Turret is placed correctly.
EDIT: The Lindberg “Merrimac” has a detailed hull showing “Copper plates”. This is a real plus as the Union Merrimack was copper plated and therefore the CSS Virginia would also be coppered. (“…Merrimack burnt down to the copper plates…”)
The resin and wood kits I located are:
Verlinden 1/200 scale waterline only
Flagship models 1/192
Blue Jacket 1/192
Cottage Industries 1/96,
LoyalHanna Dockyard 1/72
Later edit: I think Lone Star also did some kits. I know they provided Plans of some Civil War Ironclads to Flagship Models.
Later Later edit: I understand that all of Lone Stars ship line was sold to Flagship Models over 10 years ago.
Note: I have found that many Resin kits are not to the listed scale since Resin Shrinks. Case in point the Verlinden 1/200 Keokuk is larger than the Flagship Models 1/192 Keokuk. Based on the length of the Keokuk, the Verlinden kit is to scale.
( Also, Flagship Models depicts the Keokuk with a wooden deck whereas my research indicates it was an iron deck. Verlinden also depicts iron.)
That’s all for now. I’m researched-out.
Nino
Jim,
My suggestion is not for the carpet sailing or grandson’s show and tell - it would be for you. Of course you’d probably have to cash in some treasury notes or Big Blue stock …
http://cottageindustrymodels.com/?page_id=124
Seriously, I hope whichever kit(s) you get, you and your grandson have a swimmingly good time building it together!
Mike,
The Cottage Industries Kits are all fantastic with great reviews. And Yea, I still have some “Big Blue” (IBM Stock) left after putting my daughters thru School. Hate to dump it 'cause the Dividends are good.
Pictures and Reviews of Cottages’ Keokuk are what I used to compare with the Verlinden and Flagship models. I always felt Flagship came up with great models but they let me down on their Keokuk. Yep, Cottage Industry is the one to beat in this scale. A great scale to match to the Alabama, Kearsarge, and even the Sea Witch-if you forget she only sailed into the late 1850’s!
Edit: As I now understand it Rusty White of Flagship bought the Ship line from Lone Star in 2005 so the Flagship Keokuk I have was probably designed by Lone Star NOT Flagship!
As you can guess I have a Flagship Keokuk but my research indicated the Deck planking was wrong. So, recently I picked up the Verlinden Keokuk from Scale Hobbyist for 23.79 + 1.66 SH (I usually buy more then 1 thing- to spred out the shipping costs). A really good deal considering the Verlinden Ironclad kits are gone. It is waterline and I like full hull so… I may be able to use the Hull from the Flagship kit. Flagships Keokuk lower hull seems a bit too large for their upper hull but looks much closer to a fit on the Verlinden Keokuk.
Edit:
The site that I picked up info on a Really Great Build of the USS Keokuk is :
I am hoping to get the oldest Grandson more interested in Building stuff, even if to only play with it. ( I played with my models as a kid! No tracks on my tanks or rudders on my Revell Flat bottom ships after 20 min of play. LOL).
Learning to follow directions is an important skill. Dosn’t matter what you Build.
Oh, The first Question I got on my Interview for IBM was " Do I build Models?".
Thanks.
Jim.