When is it time to retire a winner?

Modeling Subjects Armor
1

Guys: There’s no set rule (at least none I know of) on how many times a model can enter a show/contest but my own personal rules are as follows:

for AMPS: Once judged, never to return. I think a panel of four juges is a good standard and trying another set of judges reminds me of Al Gore having the votes recounted back in the Florida “hanging chads” fiasco.

for IPMS: If I’ve never been to the show (like SYRCON) I’ll bring everything that I like. If I attend again I never bring back a winner (see Al Gore thing above) of any place…1st, 2nd or 3rd). If it went home with nothing I may try again.

I decided to set these standards for myself after I saw a guy a while back display (and enter)his commercial aircraft on top of his IPMS Nationals 1st place award…at a local show…kinda’ felt a bit like show-boating to me.

so…do you guys have a set of standards?

2

Depends on the contest rules. Some clubs disallow all regional and national winners, some only disallow previous winners at the show in question, and some have relegated any first place winner from any show to a “Masters’ Class” (nearly impossible to enforce.) Typically, then, a model would have a year on “tour” of the circuit. I try not to bring repeats, though I did inadvertantly once. If it didn’t win the first time, it probably won’t the second. This permits your work to be seen, and hopefully enjoyed, by more people and the additional entry fees help support the sponsoring club.

Displaying your model at a competition on its Natioanal plaque is tacky (yet unrefined) at best. To do so at a non-competitive event would be okay, as far as I’m concerned.

No comment on the 2000 election as a politics would ensue. [XX]

3

There’s 3 shows that I have regularly attended. I have taken some of the same models to all three shows. But only once to each show, cause you never know.(My 32 scale A-10 took 2nd at one show and Best of Show at the next) I’m gonna limit myself to only 2 shows a year, my builds will see both. Win or not, they aint going back again.

oh yeah, Congrats on your awards!!!

4

I would say you pretty well summed it up, once its recieved an award at a certain show then thats it for that model at that show but if it doesnt get anything then if you want then why not try again.But show it at as many shows as you like, Afterall how you do is all acording to what competition you are up against and sometimes it may be a bit more fierce than other times , If you get my drift.

5

I will have to let you know…Maybe.

Personally, I think that if you are in this to build models, rather than to win trophies, you’d be increasing your stable of showable models as you go because that’s what we do anyway. I plan to keep showing the Sherman, simply because I haven’t yet completed anything else worthy to show. It’s the reverse of a winner, by he way.

If it was my winner, I’d move on instead of sitting back, but that’s just me. I noticed a “display only” table at my first show, nothing wrong with putting a winner there, including any awards, IMHO.

Bill

6

If it wins at a regional, I may bring it to a National contest. If it wins there, it gets retired. I don’t make many Nationals, so most of 'em just sit at home, happy and unawarded. I’ve decided to build for fun now, actually lost count of the awards and what goes with what. So I go to the local shows to show support for the chapter doing the work and don’t really care if I place of not, just like hanging out with the guys is the fun. If they place, neat, but I usually build enough that the older ones can stay home and bring the newer ones to show and it gives me an excuse to look at other guys nice builds.

Display only tables are a good idea, however I have noticed over the years that they don’t get a lot of attention by show goers. I think everyone is busy checking out the competition. Too bad, as I’ve seen a lot of great models in the display area.

The more you build the better you get. Don’t try to compete with every build.

Doug

7

Can’t say for AMPs, but in my understanding of IPMS competitions, A Nationals winner cannot be entered in any Regional or Invitational contest, a Regional winner cannot be entered in any Invitational contest & an Invitational winner cannot be entered again in the same Invitational.

I have entered Invitational winning models in Regional contests, but usually just retire my entries, win or lose, & build new for the next year.

Regards, Rick

8

I will take a model to maybe two shows, and then usually regardless of whether or not it wins, I’ll “retire” it.

I’ve taken the same builds to Buffalo and Syracuse both. Not ALL the same, because if a model wins 1st at one show, I consider it “retired”–it got its due, it’s done. [:)]

The exception has been the Neuschwanstein Castle, and other models that I’ve done for Jenn–I bring them along sometimes so that she can have an “entry” in the show; it gets her excited to “win” an award for “her” stuff.

Steve, where you saw the award displayed, that’s “Best of the Master Modelers” category. You’re allowed to bring one award that the model has won, and display it aalong with the model. It IS kinda “showing off”, but it also qualifies the model as a “Master Model”–i.e., one that has won a 1st at some show. I have entered “Best of the Master Modelers” before, with “SPOOKED!” and “Lair of the Rust Bunnies”, and won 1st with both. That pretty much retires those!

If I went to AMPS, however, I’d bring alot of the “Old Faves”, just to see how they’d do.

9

I normally enter a model once, then it’s for display only, or I sell LOL.

Now that I live in the states I will enter a model one time at an AMPS and maybe once at an IPMS show, then it’s the old folks home for that model.

Rob

10

For me a model does an AMPS show and an IPMS show then it is retired. I am not into being a trophy hound but more…as AL said, displaying my work. By the time two shows are done ( one of each) I have seen how they will do at AMPS and at IPMS and I have newer builds then in the show pipline to replace them.

AMPS I prefer to see how I do against a “standard” while IPMS is more of the beauty contest of my peers.

In Karl’s case who has never attended an AMPS show, I can understand bringing a bunch but realize if you have multiple entries in a single catagory, you can only get one medal for the best of all your entries in that catagory…like IPMS, no sweeps.

Rounds Complete!!

11

More proof to the old saying “On any given Sunday”. If you really want to prove the theory, then go ahead and enter into multiple shows. One day, with one set of judges it will win something, on the next show with a different set it may not win anything and the third time you might walk away with the prize. If you are trying to show the inconsistency in judging, or to work yourself up over how well you didn’t do and thought you should have, as seen all to often, then by all means…go ahead. Some people thrive on the attention of awards. I like to keep those guys filed away because they invariably are the first to say “build for yourself, not the judges” . Then get all pouty when they are not handed the trophy they expected.

I’ve seen some models heavily campaigned, and I mean heavily. Even to the point of guys going home and making changes to the kit they entered based on the comments they got when they cornered the judge. And going to another show the following weekend to see if it would win. This sort of tail chasing is pointless in my book but vastly entertaining since my first sentence…On any given Sunday, applies. These are the guys that usually have the melt down as they pack up, or endlessly whine on the forums, making for very entertaining reading and are fun to poke with a stick to see if stuff falls out or more flies and bees fly out.

AMPS is kind of non point when it comes to judging, since rather than the IPMS rules of 1,2,3 and is ultimately a case of being the best of the worst that day, AMPS uses open judging and if you bring gold, you’ll get gold. So there are no blocks, no sweeps limiters, if there are 10 golds entered, 10 golds will be awarded. Now because of the Any given Sunday principle of judging, its still possible to campaign a model and get what you’re looking for, but I like to think that AMPS is a little tougher on the front end so it makes it harder.

Ultimately I guess its to each his own. If campaigning and building for judges is what drives you, I applaud your effort. I like those guys, because not only do they pay the entry fees, but because some are so desperate to win something, they gladly pay the extra to enter more stuff in the hopes of “chumming the water and something will bite”. They make contests look good and are usually a wealth of model building information. If it makes them happy, thats all that matters. (to them). Others get the perks because they (campaigners) love to talk about their entries, how much work they put into them and the techniques they use. Its like a seminar. Everybody wins.

Personaly I enter once and figure if I didn’t do well enough that day, it will be up to my next model build to do better. Obviously it wasn’t good enough to medal. But I use the entry to make myself work a little harder and challenge my own skills as well as a focus point to solicit input from other builders. Being in the design and graphics field for over 30 years, criticism doesn’t bother me. I learn from it and use what I think works and disregard what I feel to be useless, inane or just plain stupid.

12

DITTO, there are actually rules in IPMS regarding this. You can always take it to the next level according to IPMS but never make a lateral or repeat showing…not sure is APMS has any rules concerning this.

Intersting question as I have seen (literally) a model compete for YEARS at different shows…Guy built what he thought was a show-stopper and it went on tour----LITERALLY----for years across the country. Did well at first, then was outdated and tired…first saw it in 1992 and last saw it in 2003…coming soon to a town near you!

13

All I can say is…Well Said!![tup]

Rounds Complete!!

14

Last April at the local IPMS invitational, a modified 1/16th German half track once more made its appearance – the third year in a row (at least). the owner/modeller just tacked some more stowage onto it (it looked like a gypsy van) and declared it a “new entry”. Three years ago, I judged aircraft b/c I had lots of armor entries and first noted it. 2 years ago I was head armor judge and reluctantly gave it a 1st (because there were only two entries). This year, I did aircraft again but vocally complained to the head judge about this blatant trophy hound. He shared my disgust and told the modeller in no uncertain terms that his SPW would not be welcome in further shows. I think they gave him a nominal 3rd place last time.

Geez. In my mind: that kinda trophy whoring is pathetic. Same thing with the dude who placed his 1st place plaque with his entry. If I were the hosting judge, I’d returned the dude his entry fee and told him to pack it up

15

There is no IPMS rule about where and when a model can be shown except at the nats. That’s teh ONLY place IPMS/USA has jurisdiction. It wins there, it’s retired from there. Local clubs set their own rules for their events. When I took a first in 04 with my Predator, one club asked me to enter it there so they could see it.

16

Well I musta been at a show hosted by an IPMS chapter that enforced those rules…makes sense to me that you should only enter it for competition “up the ladder”…if u want to take a model and just display it, there is always the “for display only” option…

17

Man, the same thing occurs in racing.

Sometimes in my class, you’ll have a “day number” in the row–a guy wth a “2” before his number, which means he’s not a regular, registered rider in the series, but usually a “local yokel” who comes out for that particular race only, and enters a classs below his riding ability, just so he can whoop the whole class and get his trophy. They usually lap most of the field, and win by several minutes ver the next guy.

"Cherry pickers’ we call 'em.

Pathetic! [sigh]

18

One model, one show, unless it’s the IPMS Nats, which I have yet to attend. ModelManiac96 and I agreed we will attend the 2010 Nats in Phoenix if we have to walk there. [;)]

If I don’t have anything new to show, I just attend and soak up the sights. And buy stuff…

Personally I could care less about trophies, I just want to see how I’m doing in relation to the rest of the pack. I also want to see some different takes in the same areas like camo, weathering, accessories, etcetc. Good ideas, and great minds think alike.

Just my [2c]

19

It’s all fair and good as long as you play by the rules estabblishd by the hosting club. These SHOULD (though they aren’t always) be listed on the flyer. Remember, as much as a contest is a way for the entrants to get recognition/share their work, it’s also run as a money maker for the club. Too many restrictions on what can be enterred will reduce the field and profit margin both by the law (fewer entries =less money) and the response to the law…these guys have too many restrictions (unhappy entrants tend not to come back).

Think of it as racing. Let’s say Porsche gets a winning combo, another 917 or 956 and the factory team wins at the Daytona 24. The organization doesn’t say it can’t run at Seebring. If there are no pre-established rules for the season, the team car may go on to win race after race. If the organizers decide they want to give more competition for the next season, they may put turbo restrictions, displacement limits, downforce adjustments or add a weight “handicap.”

20

Whatever the ‘official’ rules for each show are, unless otherwise prohibited this is my philosophy. I’ll take a model that I enter at a show and only enter it into a ‘higher level’ show. Well, with one important caveat: I will take a model that places at an AMPS show and enter it in an IPMS one or vice versa (a lateral move, if you will).

Of course, at this stage in my life, it is somewhat academic as I only have the opportunity to attend a single show each year (AMPSEast). Hopefully that will change soon and my entry philosophy will get a chance to come into play… [:D]