Just got an M48a3 and wanted to do a red dawn type diorama set in the 80s, I also have an M113. I wanted to make it look like a national guard was preparing to counter attack soviet airborne forces. I figured these vehciles would be good to use sense they would of been present in guard units around that time. My question is on figures, I see tamiya has some early 80s and 90s desert storm type figures that are in woodland camo, would these mix well with the APC vietnam type figures in OD?
P.S. would an M41 bulldog be ok for this era as a cav tank or recon tank, would there be any in a guard unit around this time. If not what would be likeli to be used ?
You’re going to modify your M48 to A5 configuration. That’s what the Guard had in the 80s. Working with 113s is perfectly fine. The BDUs on the Tamiya figures are good, but Guard units mostly had the older Vietnam era flak vests and steel pots, not the Kevlar vests and helmets of the PASGT those figures have. M41s were long gone from the Guard by the 80s. A pre Bradley mech or armor scout unit will have M113s and M901s. Light units had M151s for Scout vehicles before HMMWVs.
Thank you Stikpusher, how would I go about the M48a5 conversion, I know I need a 105 barrel and the cupola didnt have the .50 cal in it, what else am I missing. Didnt the guard also have sheridans in its recon ranks? or was that just the cav units from and the airborne units.Thanks again!
Also any other figure sets you would suggest looking at?
Its going to take awhile to be honest, I’m at the citadel right now so building when I have free time is sometimes hard. But I’ll keep y’all updated as best I can. I alos have another diorama idea for chechneya with russian equipmetn loaded up with soldiers riding, but that’ll be later in th eyear if I get to it.
Also, do you think maybe a destoryed soviet vehicles, like a btr 152 or early bmp/btr would look good, maybe a foxhole with a dead hunter killer team in it. Drawing ideas from the airborne commander in red dawn when he set up his defense after securing the town.
The M48A5 had an Israeli style cupola with an M60 mg in US service, not the original design cupola of the the A1 thru A3. Most like they also would have had the top loading air cleaners, octaganal pad tracks and smaller xenon search light.
I never heard of the Sheridan inGuard or Reserve service. Not to say it could not happen, but I dont’s know of it. Those served in Cav units and the 82nd only. 82nd kept theirs until the early 90s while the Cav got rid of them in the late 70s. They then were all sent to NTC at Ft Irwin for use in all the vismods to simulate a Soviet Motor Rifle Regiment.
Soviet Airborne units had BMD-1s, and possibly some ASU-85s still remaining. The 85 was used in the initial invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, but were not seen much after that. I do not recall other AFV types being organic in their TO&E in the airborne infantry units.
I actually found a picture of an M48a5 with an M48a3 cupola that looked pretty cool, it was on the earlier cariants that received the upgrade to a 105mm.
Yeah I went through the TO&E and saw that they had ASU-85, figure anything heavier would have to be airlifted in or sent over on transports. Would an M113a2 have been in service with the guard around the 80s as well, I know that many M113s were modernized and these versions were used up unitl OIF.
P.S. I found some M68 barrels on ebay, but the kit is for the tamiya Ti-67 tiran, its the same barrel on the M60 so would this actually work as a good fit?
Guard unit equipment depended upon their status at that time. If they were a “round out” brigade for an active duty division, their equipment would mirror that of their higher unit. The North Carolina Guard was a round out for 2nd Armored Division and had M1s, M2s, and M3s early on. Louisiana Guard had a round out Brigade for us in the 5th and had M60A1s and M113A2s like us. 4th ID and 24th ID had similar round out brigades. Lower priority non round out Guard units would have older vehicles such as the M48A5 and M113s, but I don’t know which 113 version. When I joined CA Guard in '88 we had A2’s and M60A3s, IIRC.
My father finished out in the CA guard I think he got out around the early 80s then joined the LASD. He was na M60 guy and said that they still had M113s as well. Hes still mad he never got an M1!
Regarding the gun barrel, the Tiran barrel (no such animal as a Ti-67, they are actually designated Tiran 4, TIran 5, etc.) will work. But you will need to add the mantlet dust cover bellows at the base.
Yes, the CA Guard did not get M1s until right around the turn of the century. M60s all thru the 90s. They were kept at the MATES site at Camp Roberts, and at Ft Irwin.
Perfect, I found a barrel I like and it will fit the mantel.
I want to say my dad had to go to Fort Irwin for awhile to train on his tank during his drill weekends. Not poisitive though, he was just upset that he didnt get to be in the fight for 73 easting when it happened.
What would be the best way to depict this diorama, I was thinking a concrete road that could be part of an interstate and two M113s on each side of it with troops on top and another one with troops dismounting, possibly a foxhole or two with soviet airborne hunter killer teams waiting in them, and an ASU 95 knocked out on the road, in a type of checkpoint type stance.
I would recommend a BMD over an ASU for the checkpoint vehicle. 113s adancing staggered on each side of the road is not a bad idea, and perhaps have one of them with a M47 Dragon mount at the TC hatch and the missile expended. Doctrine is for the troops to dismount a distance away and the 113s to provide overwatch fire support while the grunts assault thru the objective.
Would an M48a5 at the point of the wedge, then one M113 with grunts dismounting and the tamiya M113 with grunts still on it, preparing to dismount look right?
Also, where could I get an M47 dragon missle for an M113?
The setup sounds good. As to the Dragon, Academy’s M113A2 kit includes the Dragon missile and mount for the M113. It is also a much better detailed and nicer kit than the Tamiya M113 kits. If you don’t have the M113s yet, I would definitely get the Academy kits.
i have one of the M113s, unfortunately its the Tamiya one, but I got it at a good deal for only $12. I like the M113a2 from Academy and am porbably going ot pick it up in the next week or so. That one has the M47 dragon mount on it, all the more reason to get it.
Unless you have the Tamiya M113A2 Desert Version from OIF, it is too early of a version to be in the early '80s. All the other Tamiya M113s are earlier M113A1s. Also, the OIF M113A2 doesn’t come with an interior. Even at $12 it isn’t the right version. I would get two Academy kits.
ok, I was last in a Mech Infantry unit in 1990, so my memories are a bit hazy. Tanks and Mech Infantry work together at the Battalion level in a Task Force, or company level in a Team, with the units being either tank heavy or infantry heavy. But they still operate as co ordinated elements at platoon level, not combined. A wedge would be tanks or APCs. Now, that being said, either element will bound past or through one another as the mission and situation dictates. In most combined arms teams and task forces that I was in, the tanks usually lead ahead of APCs. Especially in open terrain. Now I am talking about infantry tracks. The Cav scout platoon will usually operate ahead of those elements. IIRC, they also carried a smaller dismount element than the 11 man squad of a 113 APC.
So maybe two APC’s dismounting and the M48a5 is pulling overwatch on the road, The APC’s get on line with each other on each side of the road and the BMD is knocked out on the road a little bit up from them. That would look like bounding, and sense the BMD is knocked out/ recently disabeled it would be necessary for the APC’s to dismount right and do BDA and make sure their isnt anyone else hanging around?