Manic Moran is closest to the mark in my opinion. I think you can really shake up the crew without totally destroying the vehicle. On a similar note I seen on TV recently a PSNI (Northern Ireland Police) Armoured LandRover hit 30someting times during troubles, the armoured glass even held.
Is it a HEAT missle? If so, it’s doubtful as the tank has Chobham-style armor, which is extremely effective at neutralizing HEAT rounds.
It becomes even less likely when you consider that the Russian vehicle has to guide the missle to the target. That means that it has to avoid being killed by the M1 as the missle makes its way to the M1. And as we know, Russian tanks are not aces when it comes to survivability. [}:)]
Apparently enough side or rear hits from enough RPGs (or equivalent) can take out virtually any tank. Besides the M1, It happened to a Merkava a few years ago too. That’s what the Chechens do when the Russians send in tanks – they strip away the infantry support, surround the tanks, and then pummel them with RPGs until something sticks. This tactic worked very well against the T-80, admittedly a tank completely inferior to Western MBTs, but the principle seems to be the same.
If this was any other forum, I’d have put money that the T-90S comment was a deliberate piss-take on the whole ‘TXX are really demons of death’ crowd…
thanks for your input guys. I know that another tank can KO an M1, but Im pretty sure the insurgents did not have any laying around in falluja. In any case, I’m very glad our troops have great protection. There is a big debate on what can knock it out, and what might be able to, but there are a lot of things that wouldn’t even touch it. thanks for you input guys.
But I I had to bet, I’d put my money on the A-10, those things are sick!
Actually larry I think the T-90 missile can fire from out of range of the abrams main gun- not sure though read this:
The T-90S gun can also fire the 9M119 Refleks (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank guided missile system. The range of the missile is 100m to 4,000m and takes 11.7 sec to reach maximum range. The system is intended to engage tanks fitted with ERA (Explosive Reactive Armour) as well as low-flying air targets such as helicopters, at a range of up to 5km. The missile system fires either the 9M119 or 9M119M missiles which have semi-automatic laser beamriding guidance and a hollow charge warhead. Missile weight is 23.4kg. The guns automatic loader will feed both ordnance and missiles.
What’s the M1A1’s main gun range, anyone know? Effective, aimed range I mean.
my [2c]
i have seen 1 M1 hit and destroyed by RPG fire and another severly damaged they hit weaker points on the hull of the tank
I have also seen nice neat holes about the diamater of a #2 in M1 side skirts from that ever elusive AT RPG
I believe that both a TOW 2 and Javelin could take out a M1 because both missles are top attack weapons and the tanks have less armour on their tops and bottoms
also on the javelin have you guys seen the test footage for them they slam a T-72 is pieces plus push part of the vehicle deep into the ground
i have used the system and love it user friendly and it gives you time to hide after shooting because of it soft launch
later
sgtkopp
TOW 2 is wire-guided by the operator, and hence a line-of-sight weapon. About the only way a TOW 2 is going to get a top-down hit is if the gunner is at an elevation for some reason, or if the missile is fired from an airborne platform. But TOW 2 by itself is not a top-attack missile.
TOW 2 B is a top attack weapon it detonates above the target and forms two force penatrators that then hit the top of the target If you have a Bradley Gunnery manual handy its capabilities are stated
I was both a bradley gunner and bradley commander and have some knowledge of TOW capabilities
hope this helps
sgtkopp
you mean this video?[;)]
Yes, the one where it was ever so slightly rigged…
(They packed the tank to the gills with explosives)
I don’t doubt that the AT-11 missile can outrange the tank’s cannon, in the unlikely event that it can actually see the target at over 4000m. (I know, it’s happened in the past, but rather rarely), the problem is that when it hits the tank at the other end, it won’t have the ‘oomph’ to do much.
NTM
Interesting Reading . No tank is indestructable . But in tanks we normally work , in pairs. We also have our " Little Friends " with us, the infantry . As well as our recce elements , the arty ( Thank God for the Guns ) , as well as helicopters , and " Fast Air " . Yes , you might knock out one of us tanks , but someone else will " GET " you . The main idea behind todays armor , is that if the tank gets hit , the crew will survive . Easier to replace a tank , than a well trained crew . If I went to Iraq , I would gladly go in a M1 Abrams .
Frank
" PERSEVERANCE "
Further to my last , Lets not forget the Engineers ,( those who build the Unbuildable, and destroy the Indestructable ) . And the Maintainers (" You Call , We Haul " )!Last but not least , the Logistics people , they keep us wth ammo , fuel , food, comforts , and if we get " busted up " , there is the Medics there ( God Bless Them ) . The bottom line is , tanks work in conjunction with everyone else . To build an " indestructable " tank , would be like building an " unsinkable ship " .
Frank
" PERSEVERANCE "
A little summary of what has been said so far: an M1 can be knocked out, and maybe even destroyed, by modern AT weapons (misilles, MBT’s, heli’s and aicraft). Fortuneatly for US forces, these weapons are not availble to the enemies they are currently facing.
Also, although the tank can be knocked out, it’s crew has a good chance of surviving a modern battlefield.
The 120mm gun vastly outranges the missile. Effective range is somewhere between 4,000m and 5,000m, but maximum range is out to 25,000m, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the 120mm can “reach out and touch” the T-90 at ranges much further than 4,000m. And it doesn’t hurt that it’s a Russian tank – look at it cross-eyed and it explodes, so even a non-penetrating hit might be enough to do the T-90 in.
And remember that the missile has to be guided in all the way. The tank’s projectile is much, much faster than the missile.
Larry, you have your M1A1 120mm ranges slightly exagerated. The Max Effective range is 2, 500m. At this range, it packs the most kinetik energy and is traveling with the greatest velocity. After 2500m, gravity and air friction start to effect the round. With current optics, the gunner can see a target out to about 6K, and positive ID with 2nd generation FLIR is around 4500m to 5K. Engagements of 4+K are not uncommon. Max range is about 5K. The penetrator for a APFSDS will travel much further than that, but has slowed down to a degree that it is no longer effective and is rather quickly overtaken by gravity and digs into the ground.
The current distance record for a tank-on-tank kill is 5,300m with a rifle-fired fin KE round.
I’m not sure about the A2s/A2SEPs, but an M1A1 has a problem with shooting in excess of 4000m because the ballistic computer will only provide a solution to that maximum range. Any engagements beyond that require some creative gunnery. I know one chap that used the manual range input to calculate the superelevation difference between 4000 and the target’s 4200m by seeing the ‘jump’ in reticle between 4000 and 3,800 in emergency mode, and aiming off the appropriate amount using a 4000m base entry. Since both he and target were stationary at the same time, it became a feasible exercise.
NTM
At distances much farther than 3000M I would leave the sabo in the bin and go with the Heat. Volicity and loss of momentum is not an important concideration. You just have to make contact. Tag, your out. Greg
errr Larry? 25,000 m? 25 km? as in about 18 miles? Somehow I think not. [:)]
Come on look at it cross eyed and it explodes? Again read this:
Front armor rating, mm RHA vs APFSDS: 550 mm + 250-280mm with Kontakt-5 = 800-830mm
vs HEAT: 650 mm + 500-700mm with Kontakt-5 = 1,150-1,350mm
Maybe if you were crosseyed because you just fired 2 TOWs at it maybe [:D]
Well, there was always that Israeli sherman that knocked out a Syrian tractor at 13km or so… Took a couple of tries, but they did it.
NTM
If I recall the T 90 is a renamed revamped T 72 and we all know how well they did. If the hull is penetrated then often a catastrophic event occurs. T 72’s were easily penetraited in desert storm and OIF. The max range for a KE round is suprisingly far because of their high velocity. I would not be surprised if Larry’s figure was on the consirvitive side. As an indicator look in the gunnery manual at the suggested safe limits for the backside of a tank range. Greg