Vickers Vanguard

Modeling Subjects Aircraft
1

Here’s a question more from a modeling than prototype point. What’s the difference between a Viscount and a Vanguard as far as the gear, wings, tail planes? I just found an old vacform kit cheap of a Vanguard, but it really only will provide the very basics for fuse, wings, nacelles, tailplanes. No gear, no props, etc. I guess it is meant to be a “travel agent” model.

So I was thinking that since Mach 2 makes a Viscount, and BEA red square decals are available both with that kit and AM, if I put all of the parts in one big bag and shook it, what would I get?

I’d really like to not use the vac wings. Any knowledge or other ideas would be much appreciated!

2

Hiya Bondo mate.

The Vanguard is a bit bigger than the Viscount as you are probably aware. it had RR tyne engines but I am not sure about if the props were different but having seen both types on the ramp together (Showing my age there) they did look bigger on the vanguard. as for undercariage I’ll have a trawl round for you to see what I can come up with. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

All the best.

Greg

3

As a kid, I remember the two aircraft landing at the local airport. Both flew TCA those days. The one difference I remember was that the Viscount had a rounded vertical tail, while the Vanguard was more squared off. It’s not much I know but…[^]

4

Thanks, guys! The Vanguard had Tyne engines, the Viscount Darts. Both powered big four bladed jobs. The VG kit comes with patterns to make square tipped props that look rather like those on a 1980’s C-130, but not cuffed. So the nacelles are all different. The Transall has Tynes as well, but the nacelles are underslung, so no cannibalization possible there.

I’m probably gonna take the “what you don’t know can’t scare you” approach to the gear. But the big ? is the wings. I’m only going to pick up a Viscount ($$$) if I can use those and the tailplanes. Otherwise I may just throw the whole thing in the trash. Or model a ramp derelict.

I never have seen a Vanguard in the flesh, but have many fond memories of flying around in United Viscounts (ex- Capitol Airways). United used them up and down the east coast. Those oval doors and ports were very distinctive.

The neat thing about the Vanguard, which keeps me interested, is that it has a doublebubble fuselage ala the Stratocruiser (but smaller) or C-46 (but longer). And a nose like the Caravelle/ Comet.

5

Despite their superficial similarity, the Viscount and Vanguard are really entirely different aircraft. Think KC-135 vs Boeing 707-320, Not quite that degree of difference, but close.

Just for starters, the Viscount was powered by Rolls-Royce Darts, rated at 2100 shp. The Vanguard was powered by Rolls-Royce Tynes, rated at 4700 shp.

What scale is you Vanguard, Bondo? I used to fly in them quite often as a kid, travelling to and from school each term. They were BEA’s standard aircraft for Dusseldorf-LHR in the mid-1960s, and did a lot of charters for the British Army of the Rhine, as it was then. Quite smooth, but Lufthansa’s B-727s were faster, and the in-flight catering much better.

Cheers,

Chris (the Colony would have said ‘hi’ but it’s Friday night here, so they’ve all gone off down the pub…)

6

Hi Chris. It’s 1/72. One of those adventures in modeling. I was knocking around a hobby shop at lunch and found a big dusty plain brown cardboard box stashed away on a high shelf. Pulled it down, it was all taped up and had a photocopy of the first page of the instructions clear taped on one end. Some fairly ominous statements about “no landing gear, no propellers”. The “definitive 1/72 census” site (72scale.com) lists it as built by “Gene Cooper”.

So after a short “bet it’s been there a while, don’t you want to make room for another P-51 kit?” negotiation, I soon find myself parked on a lonely alley tearing open the thing.

Three really big vacform sheets and clear vac canopy section. And a big fat envelope containing a stapled instruction set and a nice set of window decals, and a not so nice set of TCA decals. The instructions are pretty thorough and have a full set of patterns to build what is basically a balsa and spruce airframe onto which to skin the plastic.

Now mind, in my infinite ignorance I had not even heard of Vanguards before, sorry chaps, but in the last 24 hours I’ve learned a bunch. Until I find that 1/72 Comet this may be the next best thing. Of course there is that Caravelle in the stash… but I digress.

But I also know my limitations. I’m not good enough or patient enough or have time enough to take on basically a big molded/scratchbuild project.

So here’s my plan of action:

Fuse- pretty straight forward. Whether or not I build a wood form is a question, I seem to remember an article about using expanding urethane foam to fill big vacs. I’d need to make a spar and close the bottom between the wings. And I’ll paint the cockpit glazing for sure.

Wings- the kits’ are not going to work for me. No molded lines period, including flaps or ailerons. Just big smooth blobs. Panel definition is easy, scratchbuilding control surfaces isn’t. So I kind of hope that the Viscount wings work. I’m going to try to get my hands on some drawings, and as always any advice is welcome. I’m sure it’s a longshot. Ditto tailplanes.

Gear, props and BEA decals all from a Viscount I think. Also nice BEA decals available AM.

So before I sink more $$ into this I’m off to the research division.

Cheers, Bill

7

Hi Bill,

filling the fuse with expanded polyurethene foam is a plan. I once read of a guy who made a 1/72 vac-form Antonov An-22, and used it to fill and strengthen the fuselage and wings, with considerable success.

I’m not sure how well adding gear and props from a Viscount would work. It would be rather like putting P-47 props on a C-130. Maybe if someone can make resin copies of the props from a RoG 1/72 C-160 Transall? Can’t think of a way round the gear problem, except maybe to do the model in flight. I can provide you with a couple of 1/72 airline pilots, if you like!

I think I’d try to persevere with the kit’s wings and tail surfaces, but make replacement control surfaces and flaps from laminated plastic card. Easier, and less expensive, starting point than a Mach 2 1/72 Viscount, I’d have thought, especially if you’ve got a decent set of drawings.

As far as decals are concerned, Two Six decals do a BEA Red Square sheet for the Vanguard in 1/144 (sheet TS144-64, availabe from The Aviation Hobby Shop for £8.99) which you could scan, scale up, and print out on decal paper with an ALPS printer. Not sure that the Viscount decals would work, in the same way that DHC Caribou decals wouldn’t work on a C-130.

Cheers,

Chris.

8

Here’s a couple of linkies for you. Using the Viscount wings won’t work without alot of work that would make the kits wings seem easy.

http://www.vickers-vanguard-merchantman.com/gallery.htm

http://www.bamuseum.com/60-70.html (Vanguard near bottom of page)

http://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=196

All the best.

Greg

9

Well it’ll make a fun project someday. Thanks for your patience guys and I learned quite a bit. if anyone is interested in the kit, let me know.

10

You should be in advertising, Bondoman. You make a boring airplane sound dang swell! HAA!

…my opinion of course… He, he, he…

11

Nah, I leave that to the experts! Some of youz guys could sell ice to eskimos. I couldn’t sell 'tang on a troopship!

But hey; 425mph at 30,000 feet is not a bad thing.

12

Deep down inside, I’m thinking anything that flys IS COOL.

13

Hmmm…

may I introduce you to the KC-10?

Cheers,

Chris.

14

No fan of the Bristol car freighter series, you rum drunken lot. Lot’s of penguins, and James Bond once, but yecchh.

I’m out on the Vanguard project, Get my jollies from the Caravelle kit, (paid for), and while the BEA Red Square scheme is tops, but not worth a new model. The Vanguard goes back to the store Monday firstest, and I’ll probably have to take a kittie in trade.

So my more sober friends, the classic airliner would be a DH.106 Comet. In 1/72. Ideas?