USS Harriet Lane (Pyro Blockade Runner) questions

Modeling Subjects Ships
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I am coming to this thread rather late-- I’ve been away for a while, and I’m sorry I missed the discussion on one of my favorite ships. (I’m a plankowner of USCGC Harriet Lane.)

Some comments on the discussion so far:

EDIT (2/2/2020): I now know the following paragraph about the ship’s color and the painting are in error. That painting dates from 1975, and is basically fiction. See my post at the bottom of page 2 in this thread (2019) for more…

On the hull color: One reference that no one has mentioned yet is the portrait of Miss Harriet Lane. Painted in the 1859-1860 timeframe, it was a formal portrait of Harriet, with the Revenue Cutter in the background. That portrait showed the ship with a dark green hull. I forget where the original portrait is-- the copy I saw was on the cover the USCG Academy Alumni magazine many years ago. (I think it is at the USCG museum at the Academy, but I’m not sure.)

I’ve thought about converting the plastic model to RC, but not seriously, as I fear it would be a rather poor performing model. The problem with little paddlewheels is that you can’t scale down the water molecules with the model-- a motorized model would have a lot of thrashing and cavitation. It would probably only be suitable for sailing on dead flat calm waters.

A larger RC model has been on my “someday” list for years. A couple of things have held me back:

  • What size? The uncertainty over the length of the orginal made it hard to pick a scale for a model. Thanks to J Tilley for straightening that out. (When I looked on the Model Expo website not too long ago, I found that the current wood kit is described as 1/144 scale in one area, and as 1.96 in another.)

  • How did the original operate? And how would a model perform? I assume that the orignal must have operated mostly as a motorsailer-- that performance under sail alone would have been rather poor, with the drag of the paddlewheels. Under power, it must have been a bit awkward as well, as when sailing, one of the wheels would be deeper in the water than the other.

A model would also handle poorly, as there would be no propwash over the rudder. The model wouled need a fair amount of headway before the rudder would be very effective, I think…An overscale rudder would probably be needed.

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This discussion of the *Harriet Lane’*s hull color is most interesting indeed. A couple of years ago I got hired by the Coast Guard Historian’s Office to do a color version of the drawing I’d made earlier. Both the CG Historian himself and I took it for granted, I guess, that the ship had a black hull - and that’s how it’s colored in the picture, several hundred copies of which, presumably, are now in distribution. The evidence folks have brought up in this thread does indeed seem to establish pretty firmly that, at least for part of her career, her hull was painted green; if I’d known about that evidence earlier, I would have given her a green hull.

The CG Museum in New London is officially under the direction of the CG Historian in Washington, but the two places obviously don’t review each other’s correspondence. Apparently the New London curator knew something Dr. Browning, in Washington, didn’t. Dr. Browning is a Civil War historian himself, with a couple of fine books about the blockade to his credit; he’ll be interested in this topic. I’ve left him a voicemail message about it.

There is, of course, the distinct possibility that her hull color changed during her career. I think (I honestly don’t remember all the sources I looked at back when I was working on that original drawing; there weren’t many of them) at least one painting commissioned by the CG shows her with a black hull. So maybe the colored version I did isn’t exactly incorrect.

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Just a final update - I started work on rigging the model yesterday, it is now about 50%-60% done. I am fully rigging this model (unlike the Kearsarge), including blocks, as I have a bit more confidence with rigging now! The only thing I am omitting is the ratlines.

I’ve also managed to add a nameplate to the stern of the ship using Slaters 3mm styrene letters. I’ll post some photos of the finished model when it’s done.

Glad to see my post has provoked discussion on this ship (I’d be interested to know the answer to the hull colour question myself, though it’s too late now to repaint my model). I hope it’ll inspire other modellers to build this interesting old kit if they have it in their stash!

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You bring up some very valid questions that would be hard to answer without building 1:1 replica.

In the days of the sidewheel tugs, you either braked or backed one wheel to turn while at less than steerageway (which would be terrible hard to replicate in miniature).

I’m guessing that there had to be a way to “let the clutch out” while under sail, as I can imagine no point of sail improved by immobile paddlewheels over the side.

Makes a person wonder if the then crustier old salts perferred to use sail to fetch up to a pier or mooring (and griped about the handling) .

Would make a bit of a sight, now that I think about it though, an RC HL &, oh, Kearsarge at the same scales, just to see the handling differences . . .

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I think it is very likely that the paddlewheels could have been “clutched out” to allow them to freewheel when under sail alone. Freewheeling paddlewheels would still cause drag, though not as bad as if they were fixed.

I haven’t seen any evidence that the HL had independently controlled paddlewheels. I’d guess that was a feature only found on vessels designed to be handled in tight places-- tugs and the like. Given that HL only had one engine, it seems very unlikely that she would have a reversing transmission to allow one wheel to go ahead while the other backs down.

But, she might have had the ability to clutch out one wheel, which would probably improve her handling in tight spaces- as sending power to only one wheel would help her turn a little better in some circumstances.

Oh, how I wish for a “Shiphandling in the Age of Sail and Steam” book…!

IMHO, the Kearsarge would make a better RC model. If built and operated in a scale-like manner, she’d handle like many underpowered displacement hulls with a lot of tophamper.

But seriously, I think a ship like the Kearsarge or USS Hartford would make a great subject if you wanted to build an RC square rigger-- only one gun deck, relatively simple rig, and that nice propellor and propwash over the rudder to help the model maneuver. A ship like that is on my short list of suitable subjects for such a project…

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What a wonderful idea professor ![:D] And indeed, this conversion would be a historical one as after the civil war, Harriet Lane was converted to a sailing packet. May I request your kindness for the details of that conversion, such as what was the rig carried and what were the deck changes ?

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Kapudan, I’m afraid my answer to your query has to consist of three words: I don’t know. I’m unaware of any documentation whatever regarding the ex-*Harriet Lane’*s appearance after the Civil War.

I seem to recall having read that she was rigged as a barque (presumably with three masts), with the name Eliot Ritchie, but that may be a product of my highly unreliable memory. As I indicated earlier, pictorial documentation about this famous and important ship is extremely scarce.

I did have a chat with Bob Browning, the Coast Guard Historian, about the possibility that the ship had a green hull. The idea was news to him - and he wasn’t familiar with the portrait of Miss Lane. He did confirm my impression that the vast majority of paintings and drawings depicting the ship date from the twentieth century, and are not to be relied upon - but he didn’t know any more about that portrait than I did. Conclusion: it’s entirely possible that she had a green hull, and it’s entirely possible that she had a black hull, and it’s entirely possible that the color changed at some point. We just don’t know - and I suspect we never will.

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Thank you very much professor. Indeed, as I read your and other members’ posts about the sailing ships, I realize how little accurate data we have about a vast number of individual historic ships. I became extremely skeptical about kits served us as models of individual ships especially before the second half of 17th century and refrain myself from naming such a model with a specific name, unless it’s a fairly well documented craft (such as Vasa or Sovereign of the Seas) The case of Harriet Lane/Elliot Ritchie confirmed again to me that problematic situation. I think I may try a guesswork based on a contemporary sailing packet with HL to execute a simple conversion. As I have the Imai Susquehanna and Aurora Hartford, I currently have enough sail & steam era warships and the beautiful lines of a Webb designed hull should better mainfest themselves on a sailer.

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Apologies for the lack of updates - I’ll post some photos of the completed ship “soon”! (it was completed over 2 weeks ago; I seem to be much quicker at building and finishing models than I am at photographing them)

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The other day, I was surfing in the Naval Hisorical Center web site and found what may be a difinative answer to the question of the use of USS in the naming of warships. The use of USS was established by Executive Order 549 and signed into law by Teddy Roosevelt on Jnuary 8, 1907.

This information may be found on the Naval Historical Center web site under Frequently Asked Questions/ Ship Naming in the US Navy. It is a long article and toward the end there is a section “Note on Naval Ship Name Prefixes”. http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq63-1.htm

In the beginning of the article, reference is made to a 74 gun ship of the line launched in 1782 and named America and donated to the French upon completion. Very interesting.

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Very interesting indeed! The practice (or, at any rate, the use of the phrase “United States Ship”) was common before then, but that EO must have made it official.

It’s worth remembering, though, that “U.S.S.” is only applicable to Navy vessels (and Army ones; the Army actually operated more vessels - when all types, small and large, are included - in World War II than the Navy did). Coast Guard vessels are designated “U.S.C.G.C.” The original Harriet Lane was gone long before the modern Coast Guard was established; as a ship of the Revenue Cutter Service, she was “U.S.R.C.” (And, as we’ve established, there would have been no regulation to stop anybody from calling her “U.S.S.”)

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scattershots… I have read somewhere that the Harriet Lane was previously called the Star of the West, and it was under that name that she was involved in the attempt to resupply Ft. Sumpter. From what has been said herein, it seems there were two ships involved in that attempt. What say ye?

For a bit over 30 years I have been a reenactor of the 4th Texas Mounted Volunteers, one of the outfits that captured the Harriet Lane at Galveston. I have read a couple of journal entrys from Confederate veterans, and there was no mention of color or the prefix USS.

A dear friend, now gone across the river, had a double-barrelled 10 ga. FLINTLOCK stamped “US Revenue Service,” and made in the 1820’s. It had pretty short barrels for that era - about 23-24 inches, as I recall, and the most exquisite red-blonde, curly maple stock I’ve ever seen on a shotgun. There’s one something like it in the battlefield museum at Gettysburg. It’s about 6" across the cleanout screwheads!

on names and PC - In the National Cemetery in Santa Fe, NM, there are several stones with the inscription “USCT.” It took me quite a while to figure out that was for “United States Colored Troops.” Those guys suffered terribly, fought like demons, and yet the Army wouldn’t even put what it cosidered “real” soldier’s stones over their bones. (One battalion of USCT MARCHED out here from Michigan, and then MARCHED all over the Southwest in pursuit of Apaches. Some fun, eh?)

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Harriet Lane was the original name of the vessel in question - and the name she retained throughout her U.S. government service. The Star of the West was another ship involved in the siege of Ft. Sumpter. Here’s a link to a Wikipedia entry on her: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_the_West

At the risk of straying considerably from the topic - Styrenegyrene’s reference to the “USCT” reminded me of an article I read about a monument in North Carolina. (I haven’t been able to find it myself, but I remember the reference pretty clearly.) It was a big stone plaque honoring a city’s veterans of the Spanish-American War. The principal feature of it was a long, alphabetical list of names, which stretched into several columns. Then came an odd-looking rectangular space, where something obviously had been chiseled away from the stone fairly recently. Then another, considerably shorter, alphabetical list of names started.

The chiseled rectangle had originally contained the word “Colored.”

Such monuments present some really interesting - and emotionally charged - problems for preservationists.

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The problems, interesting - and emotionally charged, are all based in political correctness. It is the job of a preservationist to restore and preserve what was, not what is desired. Facing, and understanding our thruths, in the end, helps us grow as a society. Denying our past, promotes bigottry, and discrimination. Erasing the memory of our mistakes, only makes it easier to repeat them, and guarantees that they will be repeated.

I’ll go to my corner, and shut up now.

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years passed by since the last reply … most of this threads pics are unfortunately no more available.

Now its 2014 and finally the old Pyro Harriet Lane civil war blockade runner is reissued again by Lindberg / round 2

Of course I already bought a copy and I am trying to improve it a little bit.

Since most interesting questions are already in this thread I would like to go on and add another one.

My question is about the shaft between the steam engine and the paddlewheels.

Other than similar steamers like the Sirius or Sphinx, where the shaft is hidden “under deck”, its higher than the decks surface. Obviously a good place to stumble and/or hurt yourself.

Its like in this graphic:

njscuba.net/…/engine_sidewheeler_1.jpg

njscuba.net/…/engine_sidewheeler_2.jpg

Sooooo … how did it actually (probably) look like ?

Or was there a typical solution on other similar sidewheelers for that detail ?

I spent hours searching for a convincing detail … but no result !

Was it running unprotected like in the graphic above ?

Thats like it is in the kit, but the kits shaft seems to be way too massive

Was it protected by a bigger tube ?

Or covered by a low square box ?

Or was there some kind of low stairs to step over it ?

Or a combination of these ?

Would be nice if you could help me a little. Thanks

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Holy Mackerel Lightbringer!

I must be way behind in my perusing the model ship forums since I was not aware of the reissue at all.

There seems to be a reissue of the 1/240 Olympic as well.

If it weren’t for my ridiculously large ship stash which my time on planet Earth most likely won’t allow me to complete, I’d buy it right now!

My thanks to you for this new (to me) and most interesting information.

I certainly hope you’ll be posting a WIP for the Harriet Lane

Mike

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Very interesting question. I did some digging into the Harriet Lane’s story and documents some years ago, and I don’t have an answer.

Here’s a drawing of her that I made a long time ago for the Coast Guard Historian’s Office, but I don’t think it will help: http://www.uscg.mil/history/plans/USRCHarrietLaneColor.jpg .

I dug through all the documentation the CGHO had on her, but I can’t recall having found a really detailed deck plan - which is what most likely would answer the question.

I think all the possibilities raised by Lightbringer are reasonable. Having that big chunk of metal spinning around a foot or two off the deck would be an invitation to trouble, but stranger things have appeared on board ships.

This seems to be a good time for Harriet Lane modelers. I hadn’t heard that the Pyro/Lindberg kit had been reissued. (I’m not so sure it was ever officially discontinued. Lindberg has had a twisted history over the past few years; I’m not convinced that all the kits advertised on its website were ever actually produced.) And the Model Shipways kit, which Model Expo listed as out of stock for a long time, has reappeared. Here’s the link: http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MS2010 .

The old Pyro kit (of which the Lindberg one is a reissue) was pirated from the Model Shipways one back in the early fifties. (The two gents who founded Model Shipways referred to Pyro as “Pirate Plastics.”) The kit Model Expo is selling now is a somewhat updated version of that old kit. Model Expo sells the plans for it; they might be a big help in building the Pyro/Lindberg kit. And the instruction book is available for free online.

On the other hand, the plastic version has a lot going for it. Like Pyro’s other first-generation sailing ships, it’s a simple but basically sound kit. And Pyro handled the paddle wheels better than Model Shipways did. (In the Model Shipways kit, the paddle boxes are solid blocks of wood and the “paddles” are metal castings representing the parts that project below the boxes.) It’s occurred to me that a really nifty model could be built by combining the two kits. (I’m pretty sure they’re on the same scale.)

One idea that would really help the plastic kit. As I remember, the hull below the waterline is smooth plastic. One could plate it with the pressure-sensitive copper tape that Model Expo and Bluejacket sell. The stuff would be too wide, but it’s easy to cut with an Xacto knife. Sheathing a hull of that size isn’t as intimidating as lots of people think. My guess is that it could be done in a couple of evenings.

One small point: the Harriet Lane wasn’t a Navy ship, so she wasn’t officially “U.S.S.” She was a unit of the Revenue Cutter Service (or Revenue Marine), so she was officially the U.S.R.C. Harriet Lane. She was a beautiful ship, and a rather important one. Some years earlier the Revenue Cutter Service had made a spectacle of itself by spending a lot of money on super high-tech, iron-hulled steamships propelled by contraptions called “Hunter Wheels.” The Hunter Wheel, invented by a naval officer named Lt. William Hunter, was a paddle wheel mounted on its side below the waterline, with a few of its blades sticking out a hole in the side. It was a colossal dud, and as a result the Congress revoked the Revenue Cutter Service’s authority to build ships for several years. The Harriet Lane, designed by the great clipper ship designer William Webb, got the service back on the right track.

She makes a beautiful model. Good luck. And I’m sorry I can’t answer Lightbringer’s question.

[Later edit: I just scrolled through this thread, which I hadn’t looked at in years. It seems I shot my mouth off several times in it. I don’t really have much to add to what I wrote previously.]

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@Mike

Yes … also the Olympic and many more

I must say that I am deeply impressed what Round 2 is doing.

I think last year they integrated Linberg into their modeling area.

Often brands do disappear. But in this case its fantastic.

There is literally a flood of very rare kits reissued.

lots of old Lindberg and Pyro ships. And I mean lots !

Also spaceships, planes, cars, figures, guns, coaches.

Lindberg did announce them for years and nothing happened.

But now they are already in the shops or on their website and you can actually buy them !

I already bought several of them and I must say that they do a good job.

The molds seem to be still crisp or they refurbished them in a good way.

There is very little flesh on the parts, the molds are good aligned cause they have very little separation seams.

Simply nice to work with … thinking that most of these molds do have half a century.

For example the reissued Harriet Lane / Blockade Runner comes in a box which is printed in the style of the old midsixties Pyro boxes.

Inside its molded in tan, grey and green.

A real metal chain, black and tan thread for rigging, and a set of excellent decals for three different flags

As you can see I am really happy with it.

Markus

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@ John: Thanks a lot for helping !

I feared that the documentation is as difficult as it is with most historic ships.
We always seem to build models somewhere between fiction and reality.
often way more fiction … only sometimes less …
Just hoped that this would improve in the 19th century … more plans, paintings, first photographies.

I already used your links and added the pics and infos to my “Harriet Kit folder”
Your big drawing is great …
I will use the self adhesive copperband to make the underwater coating as it is in your drawing

The openings in the wheel houses are so different in almost all the paintings, drawings, etches.
But which ones are correct ?
or did they change them after each battle because they were too damaged ?

I am still thinking how to replace the area with the ornaments on the outside of the wheelhouse.
I want to give it a semi-transparent look with a view on the wheel.

Today I found this pic of the Eppleton Hall tug …
gives a nice idea how most of them were constructed (probably)
http://www.searlecanada.org/sunderland/images11/eppletonhall10.jpg
Suppose these parts did rott away pretty fast
On the other hand it seems that they were quite easy to replace
Maybe thats why they changed the ornaments look several times.
Just an idea

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/USS_Harriet_Lane.jpg
Ray Clary seems to be more or less a contemporary painter …
he could have seen it in his youth.

Some do show, like in the kit, a small podest on top of the wheelhouse …
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h73000/h73753.jpg
It seems to have an extra high pilot house, why ?
And the gunport is completely open on top !
Was this change made for the heavier arms ?

others have there nothing …
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h57000/h57514.jpg
http://www.uscg.mil/history/gifs/Civil_War_10.jpg

on another one is with a kind of railings in a half circle around the wheel house …
probably with small steps on the wheel house
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h53000/h53632.jpg

There exist drawings with only two lifeboats … as it is in the kit …
most others like your drawing are with four … when was there a change ?

The shipsways model shows on the side of the toilet houses a small round window …
is it just fiction … its nowhere in all the paintings ?
I think there should be one … but was it only one … or two … or could it be somewhere else ?

Actually I have little idea about all the weapons
in the kit there is a Parrot …
was it more or less like this ?
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h73000/h73753.jpg
or more like that one ?
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/images/1211589661.jpg

And how did the mortars look like ?
The text says that this one was at about the same time on the Mathew Vassar
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/images/1211589562.jpg
http://www.iowacivilwarmonuments.com/cgi-bin/gaarddetails.pl?1210271805~1
Where on the HLs did they use something like this ?

Do exist little modelkits in a matching scale ?

I know … again lots of thoughts
Markus

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You all should post hot links it would make reading the sites easier.

:slight_smile: