I saw the same film (what hydraulic blooded 53 guy hasn’t?!) Man that was an awesome stunt.
“I have never seen a helicopter do a “loop”, but I suspect the AH-64 could do it, but I also suspect that it is a “prohibited” manouver(sp).”
Yep, it’s a prohibited manueverfor us line pilots. Until recently we were limited to ±30 degrees in pitch, ±60 degrees in roll by the -10. Last year we were authorized ±60 degrees pitch, and ± 120 degrees in roll. This was due to combat experience gained in OIF. This was to accomodate new manuevers like the pitch back turn, which is similar and has the same purpose as a return to target, but has the advantage of maintaining a bit more airspeed throughout the manuever (done correctly, anyways).
The way to roll past 90 degrees without packing it into the ground is to be in climb when you do it. Start with at least 90 KTAS, preferably more, pull up, roll towards the target before you bleed off too much airspeed, aft cyclic to bring the nose in line with the target, roll out and let her rip.
Even so, most of us rarely go all the way to the limits. There’s simply no purpose in doing so.
Glider,
Sounds cool. Who do you fly with?
I saw the RAF Blue Eagles (helicopter demo team) on TV (can’t remember if it was History Channel or Discovery) once and they did some really amazing things with their helos.
Here’s their site:
I have seen a sikorsky demo video of the hawk doing Hammerheads and 80+ degrees nose down spirals, among other manuvers. There are a few Helos that can loop but I know that very few sane pilots would even try it. I konw that I am restricted from anything close to that, still can give you a wild ride though!!
Matt,
Are the 'Hawks still limited to the 60/30 degree restriction or did it get rescinded for OEF/OIF?
In the AH-1G it was important to maintain positive G’s on the rotor system when performing the split-s manouever or the aforementioned “mast bumping” would be induced in which case you and the bird were parts.
We would start by getting a whole bunch of air under our chair; 3500’ AGL minimum. We reduced collective while pulling the nose up to bleed off airspeed. Unlike the Apache we wanted to be slow when the recovery dive was initiated in order not to bust our VNE (180kts). As the IAS passed below 50kts
we would roll the bird on its back. Since we were slightly nose up when the roll was started, the nose was already below the horizon when the bird got to the inverted position. As the nose came down we would maintain a constant increase in power (raise the collective) and maintain backpressure on the cyclic to pull the nose through. Airspeed built up fast and we would come screaming out of the sky. The steady increase in pitch kept positive g’s on the rotor. Needless to say this practice was frowned upon and very dangerous. But we were kids with fabulous toys and very large boy parts.
As far as I know, meaning when I was there, we were still limited to the 30/60 rule. Then again you wouldnt want to manuver even to that extreme when you had wounded on board. I never even thought to ask my buddies over in the Lift unit next door. I think that the “powers that be” in the blackhawk community never even thought to modify those limitations.
And in the front seat during the pullout, the gunsight was dancing around like an out of balance paint mixer. I hate to think what the rotor hub and blade loads were.
3 ID. By the way, all that Longbow radar junk, including the antenna dome, has been uninstalled from our birds. Especially now that it’s getting hot, it’s 600+ pounds of dead weight for the kind of work we’re doing here.
Awesome. Stay safe over there. I’ve spoken to several 1-3 and C/3-3 (when they were still 1-229th) pilots while working on my Apaches book. You guys are the best.
Well, I work with some of the guys you talked to, because I’m an IP in C/3-3 now, Blue Max 20. I came in last summer. I’ve got a lot of pals in 3-3 also. Thanks for the sentiment. I can’t wait to get back and do my my Revell 1/32 AH-1 and Imex 1/35 Longbow both in Blue Max colors.
Glider,
Zac Noble’s a good buddy. Between him, Snakedriver here, and a few others, we’re slowly but surely putting the Blue Max History together within the next few years. I’ve gotta get through flight school first, though! Say hey to Doc Jackson for me. He’ll remember me as the kid that he and Zac took out and showed a good time around Ft. Hood. [;)]
I’ve got a few birds in Max colors right now, one AH-64A from the Afghanistan deployment and two AH-1G’s from Vietnam, with a third building. If you need any Vietnam Max references, I’ve got a ton of photos (many from Snakedriver here) so lemme know.
Heads up on the IMEX Apache. Its really a crappy, poorly researched kit. I ended up scrapping mine, I was so disgusted with it. Had a better time converting a Revell 1/32 A model. I’m doing mine as 99-5136, which was the first Longbow I sat in at Ft. Hood. I’ve got some really great shots of 284 and 278, but I wanted to do a radar bird, so I went with 136. I also had the honor of putting the first Blue Max markings on the real 278, so she’s got a special place in my heart!
Drop me an email off list if you get the chance at Cobrahistorian@yahoo.com or jonathan.a.bernstein@us.army.mil.
Take care and stay safe.
ooh the blue eagles are cool.
this thread is really coming along!
tricky tricky,heh heh
Um, yeeeah. Okay.
I was scanning this in response another question and thought it would be of interest here. Note that the background is Long Island Sound about 1,800 feet below. At the moment the picture was taken, the CH-53A was half-way through a barrel roll, and while upside down was actually at 0.8 G, not -1 or even 0 G and strictly speaking, falling. (The trick to not losing any altitude between entry and recovery is to pitch up and “freeze” the pitch before starting the roll; in effect, the aircraft flies a ballistic arc and although you’re falling when upside down, it’s only for a second if you’re rolling fast enough.)
I’m not into helis, but I saw one heli fly upside down and maintain it that way for three seconds on the military channel
Saw the whole clip on an IMAX screen, was an impresive site
Im thinking about dropping around 800 to get into nitro RC helis. Check out the links below for some amazing footage of people that really know what they are doing when it comes to RC heli flight, there are also some incresible clips of some real life disasters. check out the one about mid page… bah… heres the direct link… helicopter does a touch and go at id say 70-100mph, lol
high speed touch and go
http://www.helihobby.com/videos/CrazyFlying.avi
heres the link for all the videos
http://www.helihobby.com/html/rc_helicopters_videos.html
here is my fav clip… bare with me as it is ~20mb, but the aerobatics are incredible
http://www.helihobby.com/videos/JasonKrause_3D_byCTSeaplane.wmv
cool sites! thank you!