Not to blow my own horn, [:-^] but I’ve had some exciting recent developements with my Hetzer model, and I need some advice!
I had entered my Hetzer in the Armorama “Dragon Model of the Month” contest and won the “Popular vote” category–scored a nice new “Sdkfz 250/1 ‘Neu’ Premium Edition” from Dragon; anyway, here’s where it gets interesting…
They put my model up in the “featured gallery” section, and I got a PM from a guy who said that he was starting up a new figure company, and he was wondering if I’d be interested in building the Tamiya Hetzer OOB to be used as the “artwork” to sell the figures, I presume…he asked me to name a price, ading that they “didn’t have a lot of money” but that they “felt I should be given something for your (my) work”
As you can guess, I’m tremendously excited at the offer but my question is this–what the heck should I be asking for something like this? I mean, its a commision build, and will be instrumental in “selling” their product, so what do you think is a fair asking price? On the other hand, I realize that there are guys who wold probably do it for free, but on the other hand I don’t want to sell myself short…
What do you think I should do/ask for? Does anyone have experience in this area???
Wow, way to go Doog. Well deserved. A price eh? That’s a tough call, especially when I don’t have a clue. I guess you’d have to dig down deep and figure what it’s worth to you. How much time did you put in? Materials? is it replaceable? Some deep questions.
Congrats, Doog! You have a right to blow your own horn on this, very exciting! Do they only want pics or graphics or whatever, or do they want the model itself? You will ultimately need to set the price, and make sure you get credit. How about a smaller fee and royalties, win-win for both if the product sells.
GREAT NEWS!!! Price wise, I wouldn’t know. See if you cfan get ahold of Steve Zaloga. He would probably know where to start with that. He is on Missing-linx, and other forums. That is my advice to you. Once again Congrates!!!
This is my first post here at FSM. Thanks to you, and others here, I received many great tips for my first tank, a Sherman, using your experiences. Thank you for that!
With respect to charging a price for your project, consider how many hours it will take to build and deliver the finished product multiplied by how much per hour you think you’re worth. Next, factor in hard costs, like materials, etc.
Now the fuzzy stuff. If you think this project could lead to other commissioned projects, then be flexible and negotiable in price. As you succeed in this endeavor, you can always increase your prices as your value rises.
Consider your situation similar to professional graphic artists or photographers who charge by commission and try to develop a good working relationship, whilst not getting burned. There are many good published sources for commissioned professionals that can guide you through this period.
[tup] You’ll come closer to $8599 than that dumb@&& on eBay. Don’t underestimate yourself, just think, [swg] you might get a [dinner] gluegirl from this if you hold out.
[soapbox] The preceding suggestions sound good to me. Personally, [2c] I think $300 would be a good start for you to consider, (on a similar Hetzer build) especially when you look at whats on hand at ebay. (hopefully you aren’t offended by my estimate, but you don’t seem to be getting any numbers here) If they seem to stall, ask them what they had in mind and go from there. Now, if they jump right on it, you’ll know to go up if there is a next time. If it were an individual you would probably get less than what you might come up with from an organization. [;)] Keep in mind they get a tax writeoff for advertising and this just fits the bill.
Consider (as optional features) any unusual camo job, degree of weathering, extra stowage, extra PE or [(-D] “new tank smell” that is used or requested and charge extra, just like ordering a new car (in any future job). …Ahhh…nothin’ like the smell of a new model tank, or a real one for that matter.
Hope this helps you. [#toast] This hobby is to a large degree “ART”… actually a combination of art and engineering. Without the art these models would be very complicated, detailed and delicate toys (think how they look without the paint) but without the engineering, you would have a well painted toy.
[%-)] Placing a value on art is very difficult and in my opinion… [:-,] oh well, everybody has one.
If they don’t have that kinda $$, ask them what they are willing to pay, and maybe throw in X number of figures for your own personal use?
Congrats BTW.
If I could get ahold of him again, I was offered 700-1000 dollars to build a liften K5 blazer with working suspension and steering, with removable top.
Since I do this in my business everyday, here is what I would recommend. A one time commission price is difficult to name. So build the demo kits for all the figure marketing photos, and contract for a percentage of sales of the figures. So many percent of net sales …that way, you take the risk along with the company, and you establish a continuing relationship if the product is successful. And, you keep getting paid. If the products are successful, then you are compensated for not only model kits, but your investment in the company itself. In short, buy yourself a partnership.
If the venture goes belly up, you take our model(s) back and put them on the shelf, your risk is minimal.
Now doog, I have to tell you this. I have my own successful company, which among other things, allows me to enjoy modelling. Turning a hobby into a “job” defeats the whole purpose of the exersize IMHO. You might want to consider this before becoming a “commercial modeller”. Most of the “names” who have tried to make a living in this venue will tell you that you won’t be getting rich soon, and what once was stimulating, has become drudgery. I speak from experience myself.
Congrats! As for fees, why don’t you post it up on ebay and have them bid for your work? You might get $8599[:D]. Since you are working with the start up company, you may want to be bit flexible and hope for more business to come in the future.
Thanks guys–for the compliments and all the good advice…some really good things to think about there…
I’ already asked them if they were wanting me to do the figures as well, and if they would be in camo uniforms or in standard black panzertruppen…that would make a difference in the time and “cost”. I’m waiting to hear back from them on that…
$300.00 seems like a reasoable fee; I have also thought about asking for a set of figures as well–seems reasonable?
Steve, that’s some really great advice, from someone who’s in the business end of it already; exactly what I was hoping for! Your warning about turning a hobby into drudgery is well-noted, and not unfamiliar to me, if you know where I;m coming from too…???[:-^][sigh] I’m not sure about asking for “royalties” at this point; if they’re just a starting-up company, I don’t think they’re going to necessarily comfortable about dividing their projected or hoped-for revenues right from the get-go; maybe if I develope a relationship with them, at some time in the future that would seem to be a reasonable path to take,at this point I don’t want “Art Instructor” to steal my offer! LOL!!![(-D]
Hmmmm…I will see if I can reach Zaloga in the meantime as well. Thanks for al the advice guys (you were killing me with that “$8599” stuff!![(-D]) I’ll keep you all updated as to where this goes…[:D]
exteme congrats doog, i saw you hetzer on the site and was still amazed (even though i have seen it here millions of times) as i was reading down the posts i was hoping you or someone would add a figure kit or two, again congrats buddy[#toast]
…I know a lot of guys who build on commission or sell kits that they tire of (these are top notch Nationals or Regional winner quality kits), and I have seen them go from anwhere from $120 to $500, with $300 being about the “median” price. If you look at charging the work by the hour you will probably price yurself out of a job really quick except for only the most wealthy collectors. That fee is usually above the cost in kit and materials the builder will use. So my suggestion is $300 PLUS materials. As the others have said, since you are just starting this type of thing the most important thing --IMO-- is to build your reputation further and from there you may be able to charge more as your name becomes more well-known…
…however, if they have already told you they are short on cash, that may be too steep for them right now…tough call…maybe you can negotiate other things along w/ a smaller fee, such as some of their product, future work, etc…and even get the model back after a period of time, in which your fee is that you “rent” the AFV…
No great advice for you from me, as I’m just starting to get my feet wet in selling models/commissions, and nothing of your calibre. But I can give you a huge [party] Congratulations! [8-] A model featured in FSM, a winner by popular votes on Armorama, and it won you a potential partnership or atleast commission offer! Theres somethin’ to be proud of!
On the figures–I think the people above were right. If there going into a business of selling the figures, the cost of sending you some figures wouldn’t be anything substantial to them I don’t think. You could even send the feedback as a sort of “Beta stage tester” before the figures hit shelves. (metaphorically that is, seeing how modelling supplies aren’t usually available anywhere except internet sites until the company becomes ginormous.)
Congrats on the offer! As Steve mentioned though, this is a question of what exactly you are selling to this company. If you are selling them the model itself (even though they state it’s for marketing use), then $300 price tag is reasonable considering. If however you are considering this from an image rights perspective (think boxart) in that they will feature your finished work as part of a marketing strategy, it’s worthwhile to inquire about possible royalty/residual payments in return for the comissioned work. That however also raises other interesting legal and tax implications, so you should consider that aspect carefully as well. If you want to treat this as a one-time build comission and be considered as having done this as an “at will” sub-contractor, the flat fee is probably your best bet.