Mel,
Good stuff as always. The diagram is actually a B (204) head as you can see from the blade counterweights. the one on the left side of the digram is cut off mid shaft. The UH-1H had the 205 head with T-T (Tension-Torsion) straps inside the blade grips that replaced the blade counterweights. You probably already know that though. Anyway, nice explanation of the differences as always.
Ray
Ray,
Good catch! I was doing all of that with a bad head and neck ache today. I’ll edit it!
No worries, Mel. I hope you are feeling better.
Ray
Ray,
Thanks! I know all this is bordering on “rivet” counting but to me it’s noticeable details. I expect you guys to keep me straight when I “waver”!
I keep hoping MRC/Academy will make us a good 1/35 UH-1D/H one day!
Mel,
Well I am a rivet counter and I’d expect the same from you or anyone else here. I hate making mistakes, but if I had a dime for every one I’d made, I’d have my OWN Huey!
As for an MRC UH-1H, well I have it from a very reliable source that you can expect no new tooled helos from them till the economy turns around. Maybe a UH-1B kit though as it would just be one small extra sprue of parts. If I were them, the first thing I’d do is a 1/35th AH-1G. It’d sell so fast they might run out fo plastic!
Ray
Sometimes the only way to be sure is to look at the data plate.
I would like a 1/48th scale AH-1G
Please double check your info on the Collins UH-1E.
The only UH-1E flown by a MOH winner was the one flown by Maj Steve Pless - 154760 - as of last week I saw that aircraft still hanging from the ceiling at the Quantico Museum.
Edit: I misread your post. The Collins one could have been flown by Pless but it was not the one flown during the MOH mission. Sorry I misunderstood.
Marines and Helicopter, by Fails. Page 110. I’ve got other sources but no time to scan them.
Randy,
Thanks for the ref! I happily stand corrected. Now to find a photo of one!
Ray
What is really interesting reading the section in the Fails book (I gotta get that by the way) is that the UH-1B’s entered Marine service in 66-67 due to a shortfall of E’s. I had assumed (incorrectly as it turns out) that any B’s would have been given to the Marines BEFORE the E came online. But it is clear that they were really innadequate for Marine operations for all the reasons we’ve already discussed in this thread (no rotor brake, etc.). Is there any evidence that more than the 20 UH-1B’s mentioned in that paragraph were ever transferred to the Marines?
Ray
Any shots of the rotor brake? Is that something you would notice on a model or is it something you would only see by opening up the cowling?
Aaron,
I’m sure Supercobra will be along with a much better photo, but here is a UH-1E with the twin M-60 TAT 101 turret mounted under the nose. Look directly below the roof mounted pitot tube and on the right side of the roof instrument panel. That handle is for the rotor brake.
Ray
The brake itself is on the transmission (looks like a disk brake) and you would only see it with the cowl open. However, the handle and master cylinder is on the cockpit roof:
Ok, so if I have read all this right, an E can be made by simply adding a winch and a brake lever to a B or C (as appropriate) with the exception of a few rare cases that combined bits from the B & C?
The same applies to the UH-1L, TH-1L, and HH-1K?
If that is the case then, I could do the one in this pic with a UH-1C kit, a winch and the Cobra Company 540 rotor? Would UH-1E “slicks” like the photo be appropriate or were they normally gunships?
Did the USMC use the nose mounted grenade launcher as is done on the Revell “Huey Hog”, I seem to recall that kit has all kinds of inaccuracies for a UH-1E. I’m thinking about grabbing one of the Hobby Boss UH-1 kits for the weapons, just wondering if the GL would be appropriate for the E or if I should save it for a C. Doing the E as a slick would at least eliminate the issue of making a correct weapons mount for it.
Also anyone have a good shot of the winch? I have a couple available to me, but not sure if any will work or if I’d need to make something.
I have MM USMC green, would that be the color to use or are the USMC helos OD like the Army ones?
Oh, and thanks. I did not expect to see so much info, but it is nice to have it.
Aaron,
Yep, basically if you want a accurate E in 1/72 scale add the winch and rotor brake to either the italeri B or C kit with a 540 rotor for the C. You could also steal a 540 rotor from a 1/72 cobra kit as long as it had the sqare-tipped old style blades and was from a model with 44ft rotors.
In 1/48, you could either get the UH-1C update set from Cobra Company and do a C-based Echo or just get a UH-1D/H rotor and cut 2 scale feet off each blade and add blade counterweights. The Huey Hog is basically a B with a 540 rotor. Hey, you could build the infamous 540 B straight from the box! The only isssue with making a B-based acho other than the rotor would be the late style particle filter. All B-based Echos I have seen had the bell mouth intake instead. You could graft the bell mouth intake from the older Monogram/Fijimi UH-1B kit. That’s really about all those kits are good for anyway. Oh and whatever you build remove the nose mounted FM antennas from the nose as no Marine Echo I’ve seen had em. For a B-based Echo don’t forget to leave off the roof mounted pitot and make a nose mounted one as well.
As far as armament, you really need the TK-2 kit used by the Marines to be accurate. currently, that is unavailable in any scale that I am aware of. Also, as far as I know no Marine Huey ever carried the M-5 40mm grenade launcher on the nose. The TAT 101 turret would look cool though, but alas there is no plastic available for this either to my knowledge. If there was any chance that the Marines ever flew with Army weapons, it would be the 20 UH-1B’s we’ve been discussing above. Never seen a pic, so can’t really comment there, but even then they probably had Marine weapons if they were not configured as slicks
UH-1E slicks are perfectly legit for Vietnam as you can clearly see in the book link posted by Supercobra above.
For UH-1L, TH-1L and HH-1K info go here (read beyond the initial rotorhead discussion):
/forums/785871/ShowPost.aspx
For more on the Echo go here:
/forums/804031/ShowPost.aspx
Hope that helps,
Ray
When you said “beyond the initial rotorhead discussion” I was a bit confused, I thought everything in here was rotorhead discussion. However I see you literally meant discussion about rotorheads. [:)]
Yep, we kinda hijacked Mel’s thread and went a little crazy (but crazy in a good way)[:D]
Ray
Randy,
This is what I get for not going back and reading old posts. I was just looking through the thread I posted above on Navy Hueys and I found this reply from Steve Hornberger, who flew UH-1E, UH-1L’s, TH-1L’s, UH-1N’s and who know what else. Anyway, it speaks to the fate of the UH-1B’s that entered Marine service and I thought it deserved being repeated here:
"
Hey Ray,
Yes, I flew the E operationally and the UH-1L/Th-1L and E as an instructor in HT-18.
There may be semanics here, but the Marines got a load of UH-1B’s (20) from the Army in 1966 and 67 to fill a shortfall of ordered UH-1E’s. The B was marginal for the marines due to no rotorbreak which is needed for shipboard use (I forgot to mention the rotorbreak in my above comments). The loaners were mostly used in the states for training but some got to VN. Thats why you’ll see some of those counterwieghts on Marine birds. They may be painted Marine green but they were your standard B underneigth. All the surviving B’s were eventually returned to the Army.
From my understanding very few UH-1L’s were produced and all went to the HAL squadrons who needed the bigger engine. There were a few airframe casualties in VN but all the rest went back to the training command to soldier on. My “numbers” include UH-1Es, UH-1Ls and TH-1Ls. I know of no HH-1Ks there, but then a K is nothing but an L. That was a time that the Marines were moving to the UH-1N so they were getting rid of the E. There was no lack of airframes for HT-18.
The Marines had several HH-1Ks as SAR birds also, but again if you need a K and only T/UH-1Ls are available…voila, you have an HH-1K. I could be wrong about the K if it included special Electical components for MEDEVAC equipment.
Regards
Steve"
Not my thread! Aaronw started this, I just contributed to the confusion! Heh, heh!