Hey Guys,
It’s Chris Again.It seems the more research I do on this project the more I don’t know.I was wanting to build Cobra II a UH-1C also known as “Sexy Snake” from the 114th AHC.I was doing some more research on this bird and I noticed that it, and quite a few others I have researched has what I will refer to as a non typical cabin seating when compared to others I have seen.It appears to be a unit specific thing and was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on this.What I call typical cabin seating for a minigun and rocket armed UH-1C is the common fold up bench seat underneath which is the ammo can set-up to feed the miniguns.This is common to see on many Vietnam era Huey gunships.The set-up that I started noticing is IMO less common.It is the normal ammo can setup to feed the mini-guns, but instead of the bench seat being there,it has been removed apparently and on either side of the ammo can set up there is just the smaller single seat on either side of the ammo trays for the gunners to sit on.Has anyone else seen this? Is it pretty common?Is there anyone who has a clear pic of this?My guess was this made it much easier and faster to load the ammo into the ammo boxes.So… if anyone knows about this I would sure love to know cause as I said earlier the bird I am tryin to model appears to have this done. Ray…, Melguyver…?
Thanks guys, Chris
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Chris,
The setup you mention was actually quite common on VN gunships. My father specifically mentioned that he never saw a bench seat in the cabin of their gunships (190th AHC). He said that he sat on a single seat that had no back. It really makes no sense for a gunship to have bench seats since the only crew normally in the cabin is the Crew Chief and Doorgunner. Also, as you mention , removing the bench seats would facilitate loading of the ammo trays. Personally, unless you know a gunship had them, I would leave the bench seats off. I hope that helps.
Ray
Ray.
As usual you are awesome.Its like anytime I have a question that I just can’t find the answer to or am unsure about, there you are with the answer.Thanks amillion and just know how much I really appriciate it.I will continue on with my modifacation of the kits cabin area.
My sincere thanks,Chris
Chris,
Your welcome, but I like to back up my talk with evidence. So here you go.
First off, here is a 120 Razorback gunship showing the seat arrangement I mentioned above (a sigle platform seat on each side with no back). Notice, by the way, that the soundproofing is gone from the aft cabin wall. this was a very common practice as well.
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You can see the crossbraces on the seats. Even in photos where the whole seat is not visible, the cross braces mean it’s not a bench seat. Here is a gunship from the 71st AHC 68-69 that shows a bench seat:
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So fom these two pics its obvious that both styles were used. I have numerous other unit pics that show that the single seats were more comon in gunships. The question is which kind did Sexy Snake have. Well, here are some pics of 114th gunships:
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Ok, by now your probably getting concerned, but I found this last pic which is positively identified as Sexy Snake:
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You can clearly see the crossbracing which demostrates that she had the single seats for Crew Chief and Dorgunner just like the first one I posted. My conclusion based on looking at lots of pics is that early gunships had the bench seats. By the time my father entered the war (68-69) almost all of these had been replaced with the single seats. If you look at almost every gunship with bench seats, they have red webbing. This was a halmark of early Hueys. At any rate, you can rest easy knowing that Sexy Snake had the single seats.
Ray
Ray,
What else can I say except thanks!!!I had concluded from looking at some earlier pics you posted, that Sexy Snake did indeed have the single seats arrangement.The additional pics you sent only confirm this ,but man what a seroius file of knowledge and education I have in my head and my computer thanks to you.Yes you have answered my many questions, but I doubt I could have learned as many facts and little tidbits of great knowledge and small details had you not taken the time to send all the great pics and also all the informitive narration as well.I get stuck in the small details of modeling a subject sometimes but what a great place to get stuck!!!Thanks man. I hate to say it cause I always seem to have to eat my own words, but should have some cabin pics up soon.Must sleep now!Talk to ya soon. Chris
Just in case you didn’t know the single seat was just the “jump” seat without the back on it. They usually had rectanular piece of armor plate and/or cushion they sat on. Also the legs didn’t match up with any attachment points on the floor except for one. They were usually secured at the seat belt attachment points on the aft wall.
Mel,
funny you emntion the attchment points because my dad said he rememebered the seat did have attachment points. this came up when we were at Ft. Rucker and we were looking at the early B model they have on display. That bird didn’t have attchment points near the door as you can see here (also lacks holes for ammo chutes).
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However, we went out to the storage building and found another UH-1B that did have an attachment point near the door.
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It looks like there are three possible attachment points here as opposed to the ship above. Maybe dad’s memory is faulty, but he definitely rememebrs his seat attching to the floor in multiple places. I know this is probably going over the top as far as detail goes, but it is interesting.
Ray
The “jump” seat was not made to replace the bench seat, but to be used in the forward portion of the cargo area has seen in the photo’s, so the attachment points along the rear bulkhead did not match the seat.
Also the soundproofing was left off on a lot of birds to ease maintenance, because you could easily fly enough in two day’s to put it in for the 25 hour inspections
Soundproofing.
A one word defininition of pain in the posterior!!
David
Mel,
Two things. First, which attchment point was the “jump set” locked into? Second, got any good pics of it on one of your old birds?
Grandad,
You also really don’t need soundproofing if you never close the doors! Aslo, my father’s unit regularly removed the pilots and copilots doors so there was no way to ever close off the cabin.
Thanks,
Ray
Hey all.I was wondering if anyone has a drawing from a manual or a clear pic of the rear bulkhead in the UH-1C cabin.There are some details that I would like to add but cant make them out clearly in most pics that I have access to. Thanks,Chris
Ray,
I doubt if I have any pictures of the “jump” seats that would show which leg was locked to the floor but would guess it would be the aft outside. I do know where a couple of “Mike” models and a “Hotel” are stored but haven’t had the opportunity to go take some more detail pictures.
Hello guys.Does anyone have any diagrams or clear unobstructed views of the rear cabin wall in the UH-1C? Thanks much, Chris
Mel and Grandad,
I just got off the phone with my dad. He is all but certain that his seat attached at multiple points to the floor. He has no recollection of ever using the seat belt attachment points on the aft wall. He seems pretty clear about this particular point. Perhaps newer gunships were configured at the factory with the requisite attachment pionts later in the war. I do not doubt that all three of you did it the way you say you did, but I would like to know when, where, and how they were different. I guess I’ll have to go back to Rucker and place the seats myself and see. One thing I know for sure is that some birds had attachment points near the door and some did not. My new motto: “MORE RESEARCH!”
Ray
Chris,
This is the best I could do for unobstructed pics of the aft cabin wall. This is a 71st AHC Firebird UH-1B that was restored to VN configuration:
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Although this is a B model it should be essentially identical to a Charlie model with regrd to the aft cabin wall. here is another pic of a 71st gunner showing the ft wall without the oundproofing:
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Unfortunately, the pics I took t Rucker do not show the aft wall unobstructed. I think I may be able to dig up a few more if you need them. Will you be modeling the soundproofing or not?
Ray
Guys,
I did some research on gunners ‘‘jump seat’’ attachment points and I believe Ray and his Dad are right on this one. I even checked my 1968 UH-1C operator’s manual and the diagram of attachment points clearly shows there are three in the positions where jump seat legs would attach. Some images I studied also suggest that legs on jump seats could be adjusted, that is moved an inch or two in outward/inward direction to match different attachment point positions (not 100% sure of that). It is, however, interesting that in some pictures of Vietnam UH-1Cs gunners jump seats were in fact secured to the aft bulkhead. I do think that most of UH-1B/C/Ms in Vietnam had three attachment points in gunners position though. Once again we come to see there were many, many variations of even such seemingly straight-forward things as gunners seats in Vietnam. Yes, more research 
Chris, I can scan the UH-1C attachment points diagram for You, if You think it may help Your build.
Marko
Hey Ray,
Thanks for the pics.Yes I will be modeling the sound proofing because the very few pics that show any of the cabin at all on Sexy Snake show it to be present ,even though it was probably removed at some time.What Iam having trouble determining is if you look at the rear cabin wall you can see 2 small circles about half way up on each side of the wall.Is this number correct or are there more and I believe these have small circular metal o-ring turn buckle type things in them like the numerous ones on the floor for securing cargo and what have you.Obviously I dont know the proper name for these but I hope from my description you know what I am talking about.Anyway having a difficult time modeling these and getting them to look right,any ideas? I will not be back on here until tommorow night so I will see what you have to say about these then,Chris
Yes Marko, any and all research material is what I need.As you can see from my many questions that there are so many variations on so many things and the bird I am building apparently hasn’t had many pics took of it,so… if you would scan the manual showing attachment points and any other diagrams of rear cabin wall it would be of great help!Thanks,Chris
The two circles you see are the blanket reinforcements around the opening for an eye bolt/ring to screw into the bulkhead. The floor rings were a little different having a swivel pin. As in the pictures the CE and GN usually had Smoke grenades hanging on a wire stretched between them. Sometimes the eye bolt/rings were scarce and a short bolt was used and wire attached to it. Not sure if there were more on the B, C, or M. The D and H’s had a bunch on the rear and side bulkheads. On the jump seat attachments, the legs had to be eactly vertical for them to attach to the floor. The slip up/down locking ring could be a real pain. The slightess amount of dirt or sand made it extremely difficult to lock down. So there may have been three attachment points on later “C’s” and “M’s” but the difficulty getting to them may have resulted in just using the seat belt attachment points and outer rear leg attachment point.
Marko,
So you have the Charlie Dash 10 from 1968? I am having that document scanned as we speak. I have the one for the Charlie/Mike from 1980, but I think the diagram you mentioned has been removed. You have to be careful with manual diagrams, by the way. They sometimes recycle the more generic ones. You can find B model diagrams in some of the Charlie manuals. I would personally like to se the scan, though.
Mel,
I’m glad you remember those bulkhead attachment points, the B model I scrutinized at Rucker didn’t sem to have as many as the later B’s. Dad and I looked all over for the place where the monkey belt clips in on that bird. Maybe it was because the bench seat was in the way. Thanks for all the info.
Ray