Hi, everybody !
got a package w/ my 1/144 b-17 & 1/72 p-51 yesterday, yipee !
i’m planning a diorama of this & had a question or 2…
what color were the b-17s that the airmen protected in italy ?
what markings did they carry ?
what silver paint should i use 4 the red-tail p-51if i have 2 use a spray can ?
is bare metal foil worth the extra effort & expense ?
would u recommend bare metal foil 4 a newie 2 a/c?
i apologize if these r silly questions, i’ve only done a couple of snaptite planes & i don’t know much about a/c modeling.
thanx in advance 4 ur help !
frosty[:)]
I would say look for any 15th Air Force B-17 units and they would be a viable scheme for the Airmen escorts… they didn’t start escorting until later in the war-- and I am pretty sure at that time, the B-17s were sent on missions bare w/ no paint.
Again-- look for 15th Air Force stuff-- here’s one link that shows the tails:
For a spray can, I guess any aluminum would do…not sure on this though…I used Alclad for mine-- but you need an airbrush…any aluminum or maybe even silver paint would work.
I’ve never used BMF-- but if I did, I think I’d have a hard time trying it on a 1.144th scale plane (although I suppose you won’t use as much) [;)]
I’ll look through my books at home and see if I can’t find an appropriate scheme for you for the 17… what Tuskegee scheme are you looking to do?? I mean- which pilot?
Jeeves:
thanx 4 the reply !
i was beginning 2 think my questions were so dumb they weren’t worthy of
consideration !
haven’t decided which tuskeegee plane i’m doing yet,
i need a really good name, maybe something 2 do w/ jazz music…
(Rockin’ in Rhythm was an Ellington song title, but it would b too
much 2 hope that there was a plane by that name !)
anyhow, just trying 2 get the ball rolling, so 2 speak.
thanx again !
frosty[:)]
Hey, frosty! I’ve been doing some research for you, but i haven’t turned up anything significant yet especially since all my B-17 reference books “skip” any mention of the 15th Airforce (something i shall have to remedy). What i do know about the 15th Airforce that may be of interest to you is that most of the airfields were hastily constructed, so 15th AF planes were heavily splattered with mud (shouldn’t be a problem for someone who loves tanks!)… Can any one else verify this? I’ll do somemore “googling” to see if i can dig up some reference pics for you. [:)]
I have the perfect one for ya frosty…it helps that I read his book-- it was great!!
Charles W Dryden’s plane was named “A Train II” named after the Ellington song…although now I look at the book cover-- it’s a P-40 with that name. I know they all switched over to the P-51, but I am not 100% certain he kept the name (although he was a huge fan of Ellington so I can’t imagine him changing it)… I’ll see what else I can dig up…
Jeeves:
would u believe this?
i looked thru the whole box of goodies last nite, & everything was in there
EXCEPT the p-51 (out of stock, & i was kinda bummed 'til i read ur post) !
so maybe i’ll order the p-40 instead, 'cause that name just can’t b beat !
any suggestions on a p-40 kit in 1/72, & decals 2 match ?
thanx ever so much 4 all ur help !
frosty[:)]
The only thing to remember though is that they didn’t escort the heavies in P-40s-- they used the P-40’s when they were in North Africa to dive bomb and destroy ground targets. When they made the move to Italy in Sicily, they were switched to the P-51’s…
Not trying to influence your decision- but I just wanted to share the knowledge I have on this…I read three books on the Airmen before I started building mine…gives me an excuse to buy books I guess [;)]…I still need to get my rear in gear and get the display case built before I give the model to Col. Dart, so I haven’t been able to ask your questions yet- maybe he might know of a scheme to do for you…
T/A’s flew P-39Q, P-40 F/L, P-47B, P-51B/C/D and B-25J’s with 477th BG which never saw action. Aces flew P-51D’s (Thomas & Toppins (99th); Brown & Lester (100th) White (301st) and Archer & Hutichins (302nd). Names are “Topper III (Toppins); “Bunnie” (Brown), 'Miiss-Plet” (Lester), “Creamer’s Dream” (White), “INA the Macon Belle” (Archer) and “Little Freddie” (Hutchins). Hope this helps.[2c]
Okay, i did some more checking on 15th AF B-17s and i acctually found ONE picture in a reference book i have. i think it’s from the 463rd… This one was olivedrab all over (no light grey underside). The Pic is B&W. but i think it might be useful… I’ll post it when i get my new PC tomorrow because my scanner won’t work… [:)] I think that, probably due to exposure, the olive drab would turn a little tan… Anyone with any info on this? It’s REALLY hard to find a color pic of a 15th AF B-17!!! [:)]
frosty… getting back to the aluminum issue you asked about. You could easily just go with a silver spray paint if you want to. I have used it on a 1/48 P-51 and it works well. Testors also produces some of their Metalizer paint in spray cans and you might be able to find an aluminum Metalizer, which should provide a more realistic metalic look.
As for Bare Metal Foil, I really wouldn’t suggest it for beginners. I honestly think the stuff is rather difficult to work with. There are times where it works great, but it is difficult to cut and apply without damaging the foil. I would focus developing your skills in other areas first.
Metalic finishes are some of the hardest things to model and there is no reason to expect a perfictly realistic finish early on… heck I still avoid them when possible. Good luck on the project, I would love to see it when it is finished!
Well-- the ones I actually own are the Osprey Mustang Aces of the 15th AF volume which has a small section on them in text and 2-3 pages of color profiles of pretty much all the planes mentioned in didfal’s post-- one that he listed which was just a typo on his part- but whose name I love is “Miss-Pelt” [:)]
I also own the “Tuskegee Airmen” by Lynn Homan and Thomas Reilly.
The ones I got most of my info on their background (as I usually like to learn as much as I can on a subject-- even if it doesn’t specifically pertain to the model itself) are ones I got from the library:
Black Knights: The Story of the Tuskegee Airmen by Lynn Homan and Thomas Reilly (again)
A-Train : Memoirs of a Tuskegee Airman by Charles W. Dryden
Segregated Skies: All-Black Combat Squadrons of WWII by Stanley Sandler (this one I showed to Col. Dart, the one I am building the model for- and he said it was the Bible as far as most Tuskegee Airmen were concerned- so I guess it’s good).
Red Tail, Black Wings - The Men of America’s Black Air Force by John Holwy
Hope these help you-- I really wanted to get “Tuskegee’s Heroes” by Cooper and Cooper as it had some aviation art in it-- but my wife nixed that idea after I bought the books I had…if you go to www.historicaviation.com and do a search for Tuskegee- you’ll find tons of links for these books and others…the place also has great stuff on everything aviation-- almost all of my birthday and Christmas gifts come from there…including models.
Caine:
thanx 4 the reply re: paint vs. BMF issue !
Jeeves:
keep that info coming, it’s really a huge help !
this is a most fascinating subject, 4 sure.
i’ll probably go w/ the rattlecan aluminum…
now i’ve just got 2 find a suitable p-51,
the whole dio thing is really about the escort missions…
doesn’t mean i can’t do a p-40 also, tho’ !
just hope modeling a/c doesn’t turn out 2 b quite as addictive as
doing armor… otherwise i’m in real trouble !
We’ll turn you from the dark side yet, if my name isn’t Luke Skywalker…hmm…my name isn’t Luke Skywalker…[B)]
Err…OK-- back to the matter at hand. Some of the P-40s used in the desert had some pretty cool markings as well, but nothing in my opinion beats the Red Tail on the Mustang. It’s one of my favorite models that I have built and here I am giving it away for free [;)] Actually-- I bought the Tamiya P-51B from blackwolf this summer and I think I’ll build another Tuskegee model with that one sometime later…
frosty-- you keep the questions coming and I’ll keep the info coming LOL I like helping others with theirs almost as much as I like building them myself [;)]
Just a question out of curiousity-- I find it fascinating that you are building a 1/144 B-17 and a 1/72 Mustang for the diorama-- am I correct in assuming that the B-17 small scale will represent a B-17 in the distance in your diorama?? I am anxious to see your work on these-- if you can kick out planes half as good as your armor, then we are all in for some serious competition from you [;)]. Please post pics as you go-- that’s how you can repay us all [tup]
Jeeves:
roger that on the red tail scheme !
good karma points 4 u on the giveaway…[tup][tup]
i bet it mite just bring a tear 2 his eye ! [:D][:D]
& then u’ll get that warm fuzzy feeling all over… [:D][:D][:D]
& it gives u the excuse 2 build another 1 (2 keep 4 urself) !
thanx 4 all ur help !
& 2 courtney & shrikes & caine &… !
Jeeves:
that’s it in a nutshell…
P-51 up front & smaller B-17 in background 4 forced perspective, most likely in a shadowbox.
just hoping i can make it work, but now i’ve gotta source another red tail P-51 kit
otherwise the whole concept is kinda out the window…
question: i’m assuming (bad thing usually) that the fighters flew air cover
above the bombers. would that b correct ?
see, i told u i didn’t know much !
don’t worry, i’ll b happy 2 post pix of this stuff as i work on it
& of the finished dio…
(when & if…)
& thanx 4 ur compliments on my afvs !
You are correct maam-- fighters fly high cover because altitude = speed when you need to chase the baddies-- but unlike pretty much any other fighter group in the theater at that time, the Red Tails were forbidden to chase off the Luftwaffe and desert the bombers-- that’s why they never ever ever lost one to enemy aircraft…pretty impressive record if you ask me…that’s also why none were officially credited as aces-- it wasn’t that they didn’t have the skill- because they sure did-- they just weren’t allowed to go hunting them…
I have to also credit you with working the smaller scales-- I would never have the patience-- you must have steel hands-- mine are too shaky for such detail work [:(]-- gotta give you a lot of credit.