Totally Confused about Vietnam War

I like modelling because it allows me to connect with the men and women who have made history, for better or worse. People make history, not machines, but modelling their machines brings me a tiny bit closer to them. It’s the history …

In June, 1971, I took my one-and-only cat shot, in a C-2, off the Kitty Hawk on Yankee Station. I was the better part of one line period from completeing the entire cruise, but my Exchange privileges were set to expire in a week, so they had to send me away. I spent three of what rank among the truly best days of my life in the P.I., at Clark AFB (which was a beautiful place), off the duty radar, waiting for transit stateside. To make a long story a little shorter, on arriving in the States, I took a bus from Travis to San Francisco International, where I caught a PSA jet to San Diego. When I got to the airport, I ducked in the first restroom I came to, went into a stall and changed out of my uniform into a set of civies I’d had on the ship, shoes and all. It was the very first opportunity I’d had to do so after re-entering the civilian world.

I did not do this because I was ashamed of my uniform, or of anything I had done, because I wasn’t - I did it because, at that time, groups of people sometimes roamed the airports of our country, throwing blood, feces, urine and garbage on men in uniform as they came upon them, following them and chanting insults at them (‘baby killer’ was a favorite). Especially in SF. I just wanted to sit in the lounge, have a drink and wait for my flight home to San Diego. I didn’t want to have to put up with those people, not that day.

In college afterwards, I learned that it was simply best not to mention being a vet at school, or even in social situations. There was a serious political/cultural divide. Literally half of everybody, in those days, was strongly opposed the war. Some, especially at school (but everywhere/anywhere, really), felt compelled to take their anger over the issue out on vets - because we were available, I guess - usually by way of a highly-charged, personal verbal assault, right out in public. Few people would take your part in those days, and many simply didn’t want to know you if they found out you were a 'Nam vet. I kid you not. I just wanted to go to school and recreate, like a normal college kid. So, mum’s the word (though I never denied it, if asked, just never offered it). As it turned out, my friends in college were all ex-GI’s …

Over the years, as I established and reared a family, it became less and less socially acceptable to verbally assault 'Nam vets. Even the stereotypical homicidal-maniac 'Nam vet villian, so common in the 70’s and early '80’s on TV and in the movies, disappeared from our culture. The past twenty years or so, seeing the American people receive their Dessert Storm, Afghanistan/Iraq vets back with the honor and respect they deserve has pleased me greatly - more than I can say - and I thought we were past all that.

I am proud of my brother 'Nam vets, all of them, not only because they are mine, but because they served their country faithfully through extraordinarily difficult circumstances.

I, for one, am simply not going to keep it to myself anymore. When it comes up, it comes up. I had thought this forum a place where I could do that, where there might even be some mild interest in it, besides trading modelling knowlege and technique (absorbing it, really, on my part). I still think it so, mostly.

Doug,

My son’s middle name was given after his uncle Paul, who was killed in action in Vietnam. He was in the 101st AB, same as your cousin. The helicopter he was riding in was shot down. It burned. I lost relatives, friends, shipmates, drinking buddies, neighbors, acquaintances, HS team mates, and on and on … to the war Vietnam. None of them would have wanted me to suffer through the rest of my life for it, or hold it against anyone else.

I may be ‘frivilous’ when talking about liberty in the P.I., but never about war.

Further, please understand that I was not drafted into it - I enlisted. Serving was a privilege, and I knew it (though, at the time, I didn’t realize just how much of a privilege it truly was). I served with WWII vets and Korea vets, side-by-side, day-in and day-out. That is special to me now in a way I can’t describe. Besides that, I got to man a flight deck in combat, and it was the grandest adventure of my life.

If I may (hopefully) offer some constructive advice: I skip a thread item from time-to-time on this forum because I can tell from the title that it wouldn’t interest me. I’d do so, also, if I thought - from the title of the thread - that a subject might cause me an adverse emotional reaction.

Peace.

Mark

Stik and old ordie …well said …with your last post you have made me feel much better about being here ! Like old ordie when i returned i to the states via S.F. (hippy central )(on a ship to Hunters point) the anamosity towards servicemen in that town was apparent . Not as bad as it would get later . I have deep feelings from those times and i always will . Amazing how this country has made such an about face towards our servicemen .

Good to be here with some fellow servicemen and vets !

So who here is up for a Vietnam Group Build in the future?[;)]

I’m in! I even have a web page devoted to Vietnam War!

Have a nice day

Paweł

Ok Pawel. I know that I am not planning to start it until after my Korean War GB ends next summer. I will put out the appropriate feelers when the date draws near

No sweat. A modeller just has to be patient!

Especially at the speed I build these days…[;)]

Stik , i’m sorry man , but i dont want to say yes and then back like i did before . i felt bad for doing that . I really appreciate you offering to start a vietnam war g.b. my friend .

Pawel i forgot to tell you that i took a look at your Vietnam web site the other day and its a good looking site ! I was surprised to see the interest in that conflict .

Shell, no worries my friend. It is still aways out in the future, and it will be another long term GB so time is on our side… except for the aging and life thing of course…[;)]

Pick up a copy of “Where the Domino Fell” by Olson and Roberts. It’s a good overall history of US involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to the 1990s. There’s a new (expensive) edition out, but earlier editions are available inexpensively in paperback. Maybe check a good used and/or college bookstore.

Matt Usher @ FSM

What ? I didnt know there was anything about Vietnam at a college …[^o)]

group build please.!! I have regained my interest in modeling through a recent interest in learning all i can about the war.

So the dispute over the Vietnam war continues i see . Brings back memories of the arguments i heard about that war already . Still makes me slightly sick to read some of the comments that are made about that war . Some able bodied male u.s. citizens were able to avoid the war , others of us didnt have a choice . Like i said before …"Maybe it was a bad war , maybe it was a good war , either way it was still our war !

Yes, strange thing is that the draft was probably the fairest thing that could have happened, which is why nobody liked it. I drew a 82 my first year of eligibility, but it was 1974 and nobody was being drafted. Certainly at that point I was happy about that.

I didn’t ever seek a deferment, but I did manage to get reclassified 1AO, which was a non combat status whatever that means, on religious grounds (I’m a pacifist in faith).

Interesting times.

But if we had the draft now, I suspect things would be different and people would pay more attention to the wars we get ourselves involved in.

I’m waiting for my Misty book.

A couple of other books I don’t think have been mentioned:

A Rumor of War by Caputo

The 13th Valley by Del Vecchio

Movies- a whole other topic. I submit that it’s hard for anyone born after 1960 to understand where movies like Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now and Platoon are coming from without a background of the world then.

Or any of the smaller films like Who’ll Stop the Rain?

If God gave me my life again, I would say; skip 1968.

I imagine that this is an eye-opening discussion for some. It is for me, too, in some ways. Many books have been suggested, and I will be reading at least a few of them. I suggest, also, Homecoming: When The Soldiers Returned From Vietnam, by Bob Greene, to round-out the topic.

That sounds like a good read Ordie . I’ll look see if my local library can get it .

on the topic of good books that give an insite to the op. here is a list of some good reading material.

Fire support base vietnam.

The patrol of coral.

they shown the fspb’s were set up in a know enemy location, mostly enemy logisitc areas and would provide long range fire support for daily patrols out of the base. At night the enemy would try to over run and attack these bases but having so much fire power with air support on call the enemy would suffer many loses. often not being able to do correct body counts as the enemy would carry their wounded and dead away. Unfortunatly these bases like the taking of hill 937, after time were packed up and abandoned so the enemy would walk right back into the area. It was a war that was measured by body count for the first time in any war.

Some other good books i have read are:-

Shadows on the wall. ( special forces)

The tiger man of Vietnam. ( special forces capt. Barry P.)

The killing zone. (g.i.s on patrol)

If i die in a combat zone. (g.i.s on patrol)

The tunnels of Cu Chi. (good enemy pov)

The pollitics of agent orange.

Where they lay. (us dig teams searching for mia pilots)

The air war over vietnam.( great referance pics)

I guess that would depend on when and where you went to college. I went to college from 1982-1986 on Long Island, NY. One of the history classes I took was on the Vietnam War. Among the things we studied was PBS’ Vietnam: A Television History and Accuracy in Media’s Television’s Vietnam (basically their response to the PBS series narrated by Charlton Heston).

Vietnam War movies were “in” at the time with Uncommon Valor, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, First Blood, Missing in Action coming out during this time.

I do not know how long they offered this course. The semester I took it, one of the ROTC instructors was a Vietnam vet and audited the course. He enjoyed it.

I’ve had very good experiences with Vietnam vets. The man who taught me how to drive an M48 tank was the last Spec 5 I ever saw. My platoon sergeant in Germany was a Vietnam vet (he eventually became the HQs Company first sergeant when I became the HQs Company XO).

The last Vietnam vet I remember serving with was GEN Eric Shinseki when he was a major general and commander of the First Cavalry Division when I was a tank company commander and later a HQs company commander. This would have been 1994-95 time frame.

Know i’ve got a good list of books to read . If i read enough of them i might understand what the Vietnam war was all about .Being a vet never gave me any answers . As far as taking ground from the enemy , securing it , building a fire base , suffering losses …only to eventually relinquish the hard won soil back to the enemy …i just never figured that one out . We would fire round after round into the jungle , only to find some blown up bags of rice . A cruiser and its crew used to blow up stashes of rice ? Those were the missions that made me wonder what we were accomplishing . Other missions were much more satisfieing , like blasting out an L.Z. into the jungle so that Marines could be evacuated . After that one we went back to Yokosuka , Japan to have the barrels on the tripple 6" replaced . We had been firing round after round for a couple of hrs to secure the perimeter around those Marines . Heard of danger close ? That was a most satisfieing accomplishment since i was a part of the gun fire team . [Y]

When i came home and found a 8 to 5 job i turned my back on that war . Being a Nam vet wasnt something i denied or was ashamed of . But i didnt talk about it .Even a good friend of mine that served over there after being drafted into the Army woudnt easily talk about his experiences with me . Only twice did he loosen up (with the help of many a beer ) and bring up a couple of his battle experiences , some that haunted him .

Ok …[B]

USS Oklahoma City on the cover of life magazine . Note the beautiful sand beaches .