Tip Dry (lets try again)

Tools, Techniques, and Reference Materials Painting and airbrushing
1

Ok, this is the same as the last topic, but that one turned from a serious query, into a ‘hens night out’ kinda thing[;)][:D]

So, I purchased a retarder that mixed well with the flat acrylics I’m using, even bought a different thinner for s***s and giggles, mixed em all together, and still got a disgusting amount of tip dry.

So I checked the needle and cone under the magnifier, and saw alot of build up right where the needle would sit while drawn back and spraying.

So now I totally understand it all. (Soz, bit slow on the uptake there)

The retarder was doing what it was supposed to, the acrylic dried very slowly, and I adjusted the amount I added, still no difference.

So now I’m gonna polish the needle tip and match it to the nozzle exactly, hoping for a silky smooth tip with nothing for the pigment to ‘latch’ onto so to speak. And yes I did buy extra needles and nozzles.

Secondly, if that does not work, looks like I’m down to finding something that repels acrylics so it does not adhere to the tip, cause making a 30 mm line of paint, then having to stop and clean, makes modelling more of a chore than a hobby.[V]

Sean

2

Probably my fault for dragging your last post off topic. Sorry about that , sometimes I just can’t help myself [:o)]

Try some needle lubricant. I have been using Medea Superlube for the past couple of weeks and that seems to help a little bit. Not a lot, but a little bit.

Perhaps even using water for thinner might help since it will evaporate much more slowly than alcohol or mixtures like that. Never tried that though, so you might want to experiment on some scrap.

Like I mentioned in my post to your initial topic, I’ve just gotten in the habit of wiping the tip any time I stop spraying. I’ve noticed that, for me at least, the problem only seems to happen when I stop spraying. As long as I keep spraying everything is fine, but when I stop the tip dries. Years ago, when painting R/C car bodies with laquer, I had problems with my brush getting the “Dry Tip” syndrome WHILE I was spraying and it would start to spit out dry flakes, but I haven’t had that problem with acrylics through my Omni. Do you have the problem when you stop or while you are spraying?

3

[:D][:D]Loved the way the topic twisted around, then when I read about the F-4 part, cacked my self laughing, just the visual alone still brings a smile to my face[:)][:)]

Seriously though, I get the dry tip WHILE I’m spraying, which is really annoying the hell outta me.

Just 5 mins ago I broke out the silver polish and gave the needle and nozzle some tender carreses, and it seemed too help things along a little.

Gonna give it a decent test spray soon, and if that doesn’t work, gonna try some Olive Oil on the tip, see what happens then.

Don’t scoff at the Olive thing,[;)] [:)], I really wanted to do ALOT of modelling over the Easter break, so everything is in a hurry.

Now if I had only broken my AB at christmas…

4

tweety, what kinda paint did you say your using? just curious cause my hp-c dont get tip dry since i started using superlube. i use tamiya thinned 60%thinner 40%paint and never use additives. i unscrew the aircap which exposes the tip of the nozzle and the needle and ease it down into the superlube bottle opening and gentle squeeze until i see the end of my needle submerged in the juice. i also have the “crown” cap which supposed to reduce tip dry and clogging. you can reverse the aircap on an omni which i found helps a little as well. definetly get some superlube as this will help more than the retarder will in my humble opinion. later.

5

You should have been there with me!!

That’s the problem I had using laquers through my old Badger 200, so I know what you mean about it being annoying.

Do you spray at high pressure? More air blowing through there would tend to dry it faster, wouldn’t it? I don’t thin Tamiya quite as much as SaltyDog, I usually go about 75% paint, 25% thinner and spray at about 15 psi or less with my Omni and I’m just not having the problem you are.

6

All,

I have had similar problems using Testors acrylics in my Badger 150 with CO2 propellant. Some things I have read/observed.

  1. Some say, thin the paint more. When I started AB-ing I definitely did not thin enough and had all sorts of issues. But I still get tip dry with very thin paint, 2% milk consistency. I am using windshield washer fluid, it seems to thin the paint just fine. No mixing problems etc.
  2. Lower the air pressure. Seemed to help, not sure. But I do like the “feel” of using lower pressure. I’m at about 15 PSI.
  3. I have not tried this, apply petroleum jelly to the needle. Basically put some on then wipe it off so that there is not enough to even really notice. I have not tried any of these but some say use Needle Juice, shoe polish, car wax, glycerin, candle wax, etc. I have not heard of olive oil. It sounds like a minister anointing the head of the sick.
  4. I noticed that when I am using Gull Grey I have terrible tip dry. When I used plain flat black I didn’t have much of a problem. Different paints from the same manufacturer can act differently.
  5. Could it be a static electricity thing making the paint cling to the needle just long enough to dry? Could petroleum jelly or Needle Juice prevent this? See #3.
  6. Could it be a surface tension problem? Again See #3 and #1

I know how annoying this can be. I will be watching and waiting for the universal theory of AB to explain all things concerning tip dry.

Until then,

7

Some people have traditionally used petroleum jelly but it can get into the paint if too much is used and the newer airbrush lubes luke Needle Juice, SuperLube and Airolube are all much better.

I would not recommend olive oil at all as it could cause some real problems with your paint if it gets into it. Some use glycerine on the trigger, but it is better at making the airbrush’s action smoother and doesn’t adhere to the needle very well.

Huh? [%-)]

Tweety,

Since you are in Australia I was wondering if those warm temperatures you have down there are the culprit?

Mike

8

First, I’m not a modelling guru by any stretch, though my son states otherwise.

I’ve been using a very old Badger 200 with an old Badger compressor (model uknownI picked up from E-bay.

Because I have two kittens and a grouchy wife [B)], I do all my painting at one time, especially airbrushing.

I shoot Tamiya straight out of the bottle, no frills, and have never experienced any dried tips. The only time I encountered this was with a Badger 350, when I painted in my outdoor shed (I normally paint in our basement), and the Testors enamel, a year later, STILL won’t come off the needle.

I’d go along with MikeV…you might be experiencing environmental issues.

9

Tweety,

Tell us the specifics of your problem. What is the ratio you are mixing?
What is the PSI? That is not normal to have tip dry after only a 30mm line of paint [%-)]

Mike

10

First usage I had paint dripping from the end, figured it was the needle seating, adjusted as required, all is well.

But when I tried to spray, I managed to get a fine line for about 30mm, and then it stopped.
Cleaned the tip, got around 50mm of spray length, stopped again.

I use Tamiya and Gunze Acrylics mostly, and allowing for the dry time I adjusted my air pressure both upwards and downwards, from 5 psi to 40 psi, not all at once, but testing at different intervals, not a lick of difference did it make.

I’m stumped as to whats going on, and dare I say it, with my Aztek 470, I never had tip dry, so naturally if there is a simple solution to this problem, I do not know it.

Mind you, the fine lines I did get blew me away, I glanced over to the Aztek, frowned, and put it on the shelf for my brother to practice with.

The above is from the previous Tip Dry post. As for the mix, I tried from 50/50, through to 80/20 paint/thinner ratio. I use a syringe to measure my paints, so it was all pretty spot on.

The paints I’m using are flats, but that shouldn’t make that much of a difference.

Yes Mike, the weather here is dry, but last 2 days have been pretty humid, so I gave the brush another whirl, and after polishing the needle and nozzle, it kinda improved things a bit, but still not where it should be for this quality brush.

Gonna try some different types of lubricant on the needle tip to see what happens, right now I’m plucking ideas from the air, but neccesity is the mother of invention after all.

Who knows, might come up with something to eleminate tip dry forever
[swg][swg]

11

tweety1, i feel for you man. thats exactly the problem i started having with my omni. i mean i changed the tip/needle atleast 3 times as i keep extra ones at my workbench. i tried deep clean and varying psi/thinning ratio and the airbrush still performed as you say. i had been thinking about purchasing an iwata for about 3 or 4 months because i had heard so many good things about it. of course, i read good things about the omni line before the purchase too. im sold on the iwata now and my hp-c with the .4mm needle/nozzle combo is fine! my hp-cs is on its way and it has a .35mm needle/nozzle combo so standby for my review on that. if you find the problem, let me know what you did and ill dust off my omni5000. sorry, i know thats not helping your situation. im for sure baffled with my omni lately. it sprayed fine when i found the right kind of paint. i never got MM enamels/acryl or polyscale to spray worth a hoot through my omni, but it would spray the tamiya like a charm. after the little lay off i had, it acted just like you are talking about with any paint i tried. sorry, later.

12

If it is indeed tip dry then using a Badger, Omni, Iwata, Paasche or any other brand makes no difference whatsoever. I think you two just need to move here to CA where paint just sprays better as we have no extreme humidity problems. [:o)][(-D] [;)]

Seriously though, maybe a different thinner should be tried as it sounds like that thinner is too “hot” and drys much too quickly.
Have you tried mixing thinner and distilled water 50/50 and mixing that with your paint?

Also, when the line stops spraying while airbrushing have you tried turning the airbrush away from what you are painting and blast it with full trigger travel into the air to clear it?
Sometimes a particle gets stuck in the nozzle and that will clear it out.
I sometimes find myself doing that several times during a painting session.

Mike

13

Hmmmmmmm, 50/50 thinner water eh.
Will give that a go next time the wife gives me parole[B)]

I have done the ‘turn away and spray’ thing, doesn’t really work a whole lot in this case.

The build up I’m getting is strange. After it stopped spraying last time, I had a look under the magnifier, and where the needle was drawn back into the AB it was clean and shiny, but just forward of that was this big mountain of built up paint.

Will give the thinner idea a lash, see what happens.

[:-,]Moving is also an option, but wouldn’t be to the US, would have to be Europe.
I like the idea of driving for 2 hours, and being in another country.[(-D]