A while back, I received a resin 1/48 Tiny Tim rocket in a mail order by mistake. But its looks grew on me and now it’s driving me crazy just lying around – I’m dying to hang that awsome sucker under the wing of some Korean-era craft (it was also compatible with B-25 and A-20, but I’ve never seen a photo with one attached to those planes). The question is, what kind of pylon or stubs did it hang from? I’ve read that pilots hated them for their unwieldiness, inaccuracy and drag penalty, but I know they were used in Korea. What planes used it most? In other words, does anybody know anything about this weapon or have a site to recommend? Came up dry with USAF Museum armament site.
Tom
Tip toe through the tulips. Sorry couldn’t resist. Do a web search on the missile and B-25s’. It seems like there was also a Naval version too, was that the Bat? If it was then you could also try it on the PB4Y-1/-2.
The Bat was an early TV-guided glide bomb. And it worked. In 1943. Hard to believe. Tiny Tim, being quite unsophisticated, looks like a humongous FFAR, ten feet long and a foot in diameter, weighing 1,250 lbs. There was a Navy version and this True Details resin Tiny Tim includes a part to Squidalize the AF rocket.
The Tiny Tim was a U.S. Navy rocket for use against heavily defended and/or armored targets. It consisted of a 500 pound armor piercing bomb mounted on standard oil well casing filled with solid rocket propellant to provide a range of 4000 yards. There were development problems - it was initially fired from an SB2C in development, resulting in at least one fatal crash. A trapeze launch was evaluated for the centerline station of the F4U, but the operational method was to carry it on a standard bomb rack, the rocket being ignited after drop by means of an 8-foot lanyard. This meant accuracy was relatively poor. Nevertheless, it was qualified and deployed on the Corsair, the Hellcat and the PBJ. The bomb bay doors of the PV-2 were modified to accommodate two Tiny Tims in the bomb bay.
It was used operationally in the Pacific in 1945. A Hellcat put one into the battleship Nagato in July. VMB-612, based on Okinawa, was equipped with specially modified PBJ-1Js capable of carrying two Tiny Tim rockets, one on each side of the fuselage above the bomb bay doors, and flew 10 missions with them just before the end of the war.
The capability was continued into the Korean war on both the Corsair and Skyraider.
Looks like this is going to be a bigger pain than the price of the resin in the rocket is worth, but I’m from Texas, for better or worse, and I’ll die trying to get a satisfying piece of research so I can put that sucker on the proper plane and paint it the proper color – not in that order, of course. Now my research, which started in that same web site (History Channel, of all things) on armament that settled the inceniary/mine question yesterday, says Tiny Tim had 590 lb. warhead and the platform was B-25 and A-20. But, now that you mention it, I HAVE seen one on a Korean War Corsair somewhere.
However, the instruction slip from True Details ( this is a former KMC casting) says the rocket was used by “P-51, A-26, F-84G, AM-1 Mauler and early AD Skyraiders, amongst others.” And the alternate blunt nose is recommended for F-84G, not navy. I have to stop now, this is really making me feel like one of those guys We All Know From The LHS.
The Bat was radar not TV guided. It was a development of the Pelican glide bomb. The Pelican just had a receiver, the aircraft had to “paint” the offending ship with radar and the Pelican homed on those reflected waves. The Bat however had its own radar unit and after launch was a completly hands free operation. Being hands free in the sense that anyone didnt have to guide it in 1945 makes it really remarkable!
Speaking of rocket propelled bombs. The USAAF had the Disney Rocket Boosted Bomb. It had a barometric switch that ignited the rocket at around 5000’. It was reinenforced and weighed around 4500lb it was used to try to penetrate stuff like Uboat pens and hardened stuff like that.
DaveB. is absolutely right. I really like uncommon ordnance and experimental missiles and stuff but I get the Bat confused with one of the TV guided bombs developed during WW II. The TV bomb I’m thinking of used a joy stick like the uh…uh…now what is that family of A-G missiles from Vietnam era that was not widely used but which kit makers like to include so much? I’m senile, folks. Senile at 48. Tsk, tsk. Misspent 1970s youth. Brain looks like an old Brillo pad. Sorry.
Oops - I forgot to look at the AM. One of the weapons loadout pictures show it with two Tiny Tims, yellow (looks white in the picture) with red noses, one on each of the big wing pylons. This color scheme is almost certainly non-standard, picked by the publicity department. the only pictures I’ve seen are black and white. In the test program, the warhead was dark colored and the rocket section, light colored. One maintenance manual picture shows an all-dark colored Tin Tim, which sounds right.
“500” pounds is apparently nominal. I also saw reference to 590 pounds. Total weight varies too, but centers around 1250 pounds.
PBJ is the U. S. Navy designation for the B-25.
I’m not that familiar with the US Air Force load outs, but 1250 pounds sounds like a lot for a F-51 wing pylon, and a blunt nose sounds really counterproductive on an F-84, unless there was some penetration reason for it. And Googling Tiny Tim rocket didn’t result in any hits that mentioned USAF useage.
Bullpup
I’ve pretty much beat this subject to death, I know, but props where props are due. I’ve confirmed pretty much all your info, Tailspin, and discovered the China Lake web site to boot. It show a Tiny Tim being fired from SB2C Helldiver and one in museum. My original question about rails or stubs is moot. They had to drop the big monster before the engine could be ignited so the wing wouldn’t get burned off. Maybe it worked like the Genie, a very, very primitive rig for a nuke. Unguided, It fell from a F-89 wing or an F-101 or 106 bombay until an attached lanyard became taut and pulled out the firing pin.
Strictly speaking - “A drop launcher has been perfected for firing the 11.75-inch Tiny Tim. This installation consists of a Mark 51 bomb rack, and a lanyard and lanyard-operated switches. The rocket is suspended from the bomb rack, and falls away from the plane when released. As it falls the rocket pulls out the 8-foot lanyard, which unreels until two micro switches are actuated and current flows through the lanyard to ignite the rocket propellant. Use of the lanyard makes it possible to delay firing of the rocket motor until the plane is safely out of the potential zone of rocket blast.”
The part about electricity flowing through the lanyard doesn’t sound right…
OK - go to:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f84tj.htm
and look at the F-84E section for pictures with the Tiny Tims loaded.
And Tailspin, before this horse is beaten, chopped and frappe’d to death, forgive me once again. You told me about the lanyard up there above before I went blithering on speculating about a lanyard and the Genie and all that. In a more appropriate forum, I’d quote a close friend’s description when, as a young ANG F-101B jock, he got to fire a Genie practice round. He was so dazzled and shocked by the spectacle of the firing, he forgot to split-ess away.
Again, thanks to all. Tom Bell