hey everyone.
I’m starting a new project and I need a little research help. I have the tamyia late Tiger 1 and want to put it in a dio with a fue paratroopers that are trying to bazooka it. I know that one rocket won’t destroy the tank but it might hit the roadwheels or something and disable it.
My problem is that i don’t know of any tiger’s operating in normandy at the exact time of the invasion. I found out about the sSSPzAbt 101 that arrived about two weeks later with 3 or 4 divisons that had tigers but can’t find any pics. I appreciate any help from u guys. Thanks in advance.
101 operated mainly in the British Sectors - Villiers-Bocage, Caen, Rouen, etc, so it would have to be a 'what if" project ( What if D-Day was delayed 6 months, etc) . Your best bet would be to look at the operational history of your para’s, and then place the dio in that operational area rather than Normandy.
If you can get your hands on a copy of Jean Restayn’s “Tigers in the West”, you will have a plethora of pics to choose from, when you know what Tiger unit was in the area of your Para’s.
Your Para’s would have to be overly brave/stupid to get that close to a Tiger, with only a Bazooka to hit it with. Unless the turret was disabled, the return fire would not be pretty.
Techmod has some decals for the late for June of 44 (SSsPzAbt 101 and 102). Can’t say if they would work, though
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/german/techtiger.htm
See if they have them at www.airconnection.com
I found this at Squadron
http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=MG528
I will be attempting a project with the same tank at the same theater and time.
The sSSPzAbt 101 from what I have read, arrived at the Normandy Front June 12 1944 (6 days after the invasion)
This site has some good stuff
http://www.alanhamby.com/paint.html
so does this one the sSSPzAbt 101 is on pg 2
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers.htm
Also check out the Tamiy Tiger I Group Build lots of info going on in there
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=27020
this is the tank I will be doing for my build.
good luck![:)]
Hey marineman, definitely look into the Tiger Group Build. There is a bunch of us starting to build our Tigers December 1st. It’s going to be a good time, so tell Tediam if you want in. Rebelreenactor has the link above. By the way- I see you are from Scranton. Go Baby Pens!!
I did extensive homework (and asked many questions) a while back for the normandy GB. I wanted to do a normandy tiger, so I went out to find when they operated in the campagn. The first real action any tigers had was in villers-bocage on June 13, 1944. Thats when Micheal Whittman cleaned house on the Brits and shot up a whole bunch of unatended vehicles. His tiger was destroyed by a cheapshot from a shermie in the back, but he made it out alive to fight another day and die by a P-47 strafe attack (HVAR rockets I think) on August 8. Anyway, thats the first combat any tiger got that was closest to D-day.
Another good book on the invasion and german armor activity is “The Panzers and the Battle of Normandy” by Georges Bernage, Heimdal Publishers, copyright 2000. This covers daily panzer actions from June 5th thru July 20th, 1944. There are a number of photo’s showing the actual tanks involved.
From the book: " The 101st SS heavy Panzer Battalion had been alerted to move on 6 June and had actually gotten underway in the early hours of 7 June" (their starting point was near Beauvais, north and slightly west of Paris).
Bernage reports " By the evening of 12 June the battalions Tigers had still not reached Villers-Bocage."
Of course on the morning of June 13th Untersturmfuhrer Wittman will make his now famous stroll thru Villers-Bocage and engage with elements of the 4th County of London Yeomanry and the 5th Royal Horse Artillery, much to their dismay.
HTH
Glenn
That sounds a bit disparaging. If one accepts Webster’s definition of the word, that would imply almost a form of cowardice on the part of the Sherman commander. War is nasty business the object of which is to simply survive and win. Should the Sherman commander who was victorious in that engagement instead have given up his ‘cheap’ rear shot on the Tiger in favor of a frontal engagement? Had he done so and gotten his Sherman blown apart in the process, I don’t think anyone would consider him to be particulary brave so much as stupid.
[:0] WE"VE GOT CONTROVERSY![:0]
Thanks for all the great respones and the links were great. I will look into those books and see what i can find. My camera is broken so I got to get it fixed by december to do the GB.
I do believe that a shot to the back is cheap. If the sherman had seriously fought one on one, the tiger would vaperize it. In the case of war though it’s either them or you.
JWest- I’ve got season tickets to the games. I love the baby pens, thanks
Yeah, now that I look back at it, the sherman commander must have had a lot of guts because if he missed or if the shell bounced off, he’d probably be dead. Sorry about the usage.
Thanks ArmorMaster.
Of course it would, that’s why you wouldn’t want to take a Tiger on from the front. In really any form of competition, the key to success is to position yourself so that your stengths are mazimized against your opponent’s weaknesses and that your weaknesses are minimized with respect to you opponent’s strengths. In a Sherman battle with a Tiger, that basically means achieving a side or back shot while the Tiger’s gun is pointed elsewhere. As long as you’re as not waiving a white surrender flag from your turret, it not cheap, just good tactics.
Or possibly luck, I’m not sure of the exact tactical situation with Whitman’s Tiger, but I remember an account of some in-town fighting in France where a Sherman entered a street from an intersection and a Pather was a short distance away, pointed in the wrong direction. In that case the Sherman won, but had the Panther been pointing the other way, it would have been the winner. Nothing cheap nor chivalrous, just luck in a tough, hard battle.
We do not have controversy. Just a polite exchange of ideas.
No such thing as a Cheap shot in Tank warfare strategy. Head on the tiger would make Swiss Cheese (usually fondue [:p]) out of a Sherman way before they got in range to spit back. You get in behind and make sure of your first shot - that is strategy, and the way you live to fight another day.
If you want chivalry, go back to the Middle Ages when you set the time and place so both sides would be there. You shouted and gestured at each other for a while, then charged together and hacked and slashed until one side ran away. Then you went to the next ‘kingdom/barony/whatever’ and arranged another meet. Personally I don’t see the civalised side of that either.[xx(]
As I said Marine-man, Tigers fought the Brits in Normandy. Unless you have some ‘red berets’ instead of US Para’s, you will need to set the scene elsewhere. Personally, I would by a stug or Panzer IV for that dio idea, would fit in better with the Normandy theme.
Well you said it your self, In war its either them or you. Don’t think the Tiger crews were any different. When Otto Carius had his famous engagment in Malinava he quickly realized that he had to approach the JS-2’s from the sides or the rear to knock them out … so he did just that … ofcourse.
Now wether Wittmann was knocked out by a Typhoon, a Firefly or a the combined efforts of 5 Shermans is another disusion.
Anyway, back to the original question…
Mike, if you want to build a dio with some paras trying to take out a Tiger, you might think about Arnhem. If the dio does not have to be in Normandy, the Arnhem campaign is your next best bet. I know that the British 1st para took on the two ss armored divisions there with little or no effective weaponry. You might want to check on this one, but I also think the 82nd and 101st airborne units hooked up with the British XXX tank corps and faced Tigers on their approach to Arnhem. I know I have seen some knocked out Tigers from the Arnhem campaign, I just don’t remember if they were knocked out by US airborne or not. I do think that the British 1st para took out two King Tigers on their own. (which makes them as about as hard as nails) Anyway, let me know if you want to look into this more.
You might be hard pressed to find an instance where US airborne units were engaged with a Tiger in Normandy, at least in their jump gear. This is becuase, as mentioned before, the Tiger units didnt show up until rather late.
Good luck.
its called creative license. u can make whatever u think looks cool
Let’s go, I read books about tigers in Normandy,i visited all the normandy, went to lot of museum, St mere eglise etc… i’m agree with Edog.
In normandy, the first tiger came the 13 june around Villers-bocage and Tilly/seulles.
It’s the british area…I will re-read my books, and come back to you.
If you want american Paratroop, read “band of brothers”, the Easy company met tigers
in Holland, not far from Eindoven, after Market Garden.