I have to say this because this is an open forum with open minded people. I am in the middle of a Dragon Abrams and I must tell you, I am not enjoying it one iota. I see now why it is priced less than Tamiya. First off, the directions are hideous to say the least. There is a page with diagram after diagram with no rhyme or apparant reason. But, the plastic and the sprues are miserable. The railings asround the turret are so thin and molded so close to the sprue that they are almost impossible to clean from the sprue tree. Then, once it s off, the plastic is so thin I am not sure how I am going to sand the residual plastic down. I am telling you, there are spots that it is difficult to decipher whether the piece is separate from the sprue or not. Things don’t fit properly and I haven’t even gotten to the tracks yet. They, im my optimistic passion, are going to be a nightmare. I am determined to finish this and then pick up a Tamiya Abrams. Now, know I am not a Master Modeler. That is the point, I want to build things and have them look good without a major effort in scratchbuilding etc. etc. Don’t get e wrong, some of you are great and these kits are a breeze for you. I do this to relax, not get frustrated like I currently am. Now, fire away at my armor. I can take it. I also have Zimmerit on my butt to avoid your shoes!!!
Actually I am glad to hear when kits are difficult so I can keep it in mind when I purchase them. Dragon is a hard one- sometimes their kits are awesome (mostly the new kits) and sometimes the fit is terrible. And don’t get wipw started on the instructions! I have the Dragon Abrams in the closet unbuilt. I have done 2 of the Tamiya kits, however and the are a great build. Sometimes you get what you pay for (sometimes- the Tiger is an opposite of that example, though)
I don’t think anyone is going to flame you on this one. (And I’m not going to start on the instructions. I’ve said enough about that in other threads!) It seems to me I’ve read similar comments about the Dragon M1’s elsewhere. But it also seems to me they are supposed to be the most accurate. Maj Rob has that all down to a science. I’ve got two of the Trumpeters (don’t get Tigerman started on those!) and a DML. I barely started one of the Trumpeters and lost most of my interest in it.
Suffice it to say, Dragon does have it’s moments, both real good and real (real) bad! Hearing your opinion is one of the things that makes this forum strong. Thanks for sharing it.
I personally like the dragon Abrams kits. Until the new Tamiya M1A1/A2 came out, they were the most accurate on the market. They still have some things that the new Tamiya one is still lacking, non-slip coating for one. Not meaning to insult you, but it mainly comes down to skill level. If you are just starting out, Dragon Abrams is not the kit to build. If you have been building for a while, the Dragon kit isn’t that difficult, and it looks great once done. I find them pretty straight-forward and not that difficult to build. If you are looking for a shake the box build, stick with Tamiya. For a little more challenging, go fo the Dragon.
Removing finely detailed parts from sprues will test the most seasoned of modellers. You have a valid argument, and there are no secrets I can recommend other then always try and use a sharp cutting tool, and for very fine detail parts, try relieving the stress on the part by cutting the sprue at each end of the detail part separating it from the primary part of the sprue. This should reduce the stress on the part, and make it a bit easier to remove from the sprue. Hopefully this tip will help you. Semper Fi, mike
Depends on what you want out of the hobby. Some people actually like miserable builds! They can then boast about how they made this from … that. I’ve actually done that. I built a Realspace Models Redstone Rocket for a friend a few years back, and was sure to show him the kit before I started building it! I could see he was thinking, “oh, that pile of junk is supposed to make a Redstone rocket?” But he was impressed by the completed product, as I knew he would be. [:p]
Me, I have no problem building complicated kits. I recently built a Mack NO from a resin kit just because I wanted a Mack NO, even though the kit itself was very hard to obtain and very fiddly to build. It was the most complicated kit I’d ever built, but that’s ok. That said, complication is certainly not the reason I build. It’s something I put up with. I build to have nice representations of the subject, and because the creation is fun. I’ll take a well-designed kit over a poorly-designed one anyway, if we take design to mean rationality of parts and molding to provide the modeler with an accurate and readily built model.
There’s nothing like building a Tamiya kit. It’s a pleasure to construct the model and sit back and just enjoy it coming all together, instead of cursing and repairing yet another broken or badly-molded piece.
This is why forums are great places.I will in future always ask what people think of a certain kit before buying , as I just cant afford to waste money on a bad product.Unless of course said kit is on sale ( I missed out on an AFV club M10 cos I hesitated then went back to see someone buy it right in front of me[:(!] ) . Of course Opinions will be varied but they give you a place to start.
Larry,
Where did you find the Mack NO kit, I have been looking for one myself but no luck?
Cheers
Thom
While my skill level is marginal at best, I have built a few kits from them:
I built the DML Stug III C/D, it wasn’t very good. I built the Goliath, it was OK. I started the 3.7cm gun, and it was so bad I didn’t bother finishing. I have the Elefant, and it seems like it will be OK, but you can’t really tell until you start cutting parts.
To each his own. I personally think their plastic is too soft. It’s like trying to file butter.
Ted
I think that’s a common comment concerning this kit, as is Gino’s response that it’s not an easy kit, but it builds into a nice Abrams once you fight your way through it.
As Larry said, we all have different “thresholds of pain” concerning kits, and I don’t think it’s necessarily a question of skill, as Gino alluded to. If you’ve read any of my reviews of the BMP-3 you can see in my signature, you know I have a very bad opinion about Skif kits! It was one of the most difficult (OK, maybe THE most difficult) kit I’ve ever built, with too many problems to list here. However, I worked hard, and am fairly satisfied with the results (this model was featured in the March, 2004 issue of Armour Modelling magazine).
So, while I can fix any problem a kit may present, I don’t really like to. Call me lazy if you will, but I prefer a kit that fits well, is accurate, and is well-detailed right out of the box. I’d much rather spend my modelling time superdetailing, doing conversions, painting, and weathering a good kit, rather than spend time filling sink holes, ejector pin marks, and poor joints, correcting shapes, and dealing with all the other hallmarks of a poorly designed, poorly engineered, and poorly produced kit.
Some folks, however, love doing just that! And some people scratchbuild their models.
So, there’s no need to be defensive about stating your honest opinion about a kit, nsclcctl!
Thanks for the post! [:D]
I got it from greatmodels.com. Expect a wait as they try to get one from France.
The kit is a bit of a bear, and it’s real expensive. Expect pieces to be missing. More waiting as greatmodels tries to get the pieces from Azimut.
Or try R&J. You never know if they may have one.
It is cool when it is built up though. I recently tossed together an Opel Blitz and the difference in size between the Blitz and the NO is amazing. It’s simply humongous.
One of the problems with my Dragon M1A1-HA was the turret wasn’t completely molded! The fit was laughable and plenty of cleanup. I would say it was better than Trumpeters junk of a kit though. That is on my all-time worst kit list. The dragon did as Gino said, have the anti-slip texture which Tamiya failed to include. Tamiya’s kit is at best a decent fit, but somewhat lacking in detail. Odd for a Tamiya kit too.
On the Anti Slip…I have looked at the result Trump and the Italians got…horrid results…
Tamiya left it off as it cannopt be moulded and look acurate…they think about the top end rather than the average…so they know that people will take it off …and that would be a big job !!..there are methods that are easy to replace it such as CASTaCOAT which gives a far better finnish that any moulding could ever make…
so
…I think, that They think…and that is why I like Tamiya as much as I do…they just know…
Now this new tiger and the new Pz4 from Tristar…now there is a new story in the making…whatch ya back Big T.
AJ
You may have gotten one of the dreaded “dirty” kits that DML has put out , I got a kit a couple years back DML jagdtiger that had so much sprue cleanup it wasn’t even funny , flash galore so to speak and the smaller parts were poorly matched and brittle .
Thank god I was not really depending on these parts to finish the model , it really was a mess , but these are few and far between , even car makers make lemons every now and then .
I have done other Dragon kits that were just awesome , in fact most of them are .
I like their diverse subjects as well , they do kits others just will not touch .
Don’t give up on dragon the make great kits as a whole .[8D]
Like the opinions good and bad, it’s why i’m here. Helps me make informed purchases.
I agree with your observations as I have built 2 M1’s from Dragon so far, the M1A1HA and the M1A2.
But with a little more patience and perseverance (and cases of Coca Cola or glasses of Ice Tea), those kits can build up to really wonderful models.
Just hang in there…it will be more rewarding if you get it done.
Personally I find that the effort put into a Dragon kit results in a better finished product, more rewarding than spending the extra cash on Tamiya, plus the AM stuff. Especially the new offerings that are loaded with PE and barrels OOB.
Every manufacturer seems to have their ‘dogs’, some more than others.
I know I’m getting tired of opening a new kit only to find a 30 year old kit with an extra figure added for $35.
Like you said, that’s what the forums are for…I just wish I could remember what I 've read when I’m in the LHS.
Your review isn’t irritating me. I have my own horrible experiences with Dragon kits both old and new. The DML Stug IV and Panzer IV J late are both sitting uncompleted on a shelf. Too many fit problems and warped parts for me to care about them anymore. I also recently finished their T-34/76 mod 1941 and even though it looks good when finished, I hated seeing knockout pins on ever part, both large and small. The small fragile parts all had thick sprue attachment points which made removal very tricky. Dragon’s 251’s and the Tiger I give me hope that they have improved their mold technology and joined the modern age. Now if we can only convince the eastern european companies to upgrade their tools and skills…sigh.
One thing I did notice about tamiya plastic , depending on the part glued , at times the plastic fails to “weld” with model cement . The plastic seems a bit too hard at times . I relly noticed this on the wheel mounts on the torsion rods on the Late Panther G kit , which worked to my advantage once as I had to remove them to correct a mistake , they just popped right off !
I was wondering if anyone but myself has noticed this .
Hey, no worries about anyone flamming you on this one. You expressed your opinion, and justified your perspective, which is a form of good argument. Everyone has different thresholds of how far they can bear a bad kit. Dragon for the most part have excellent kits, but here and there you’ll run into a best. The only point I have to take up is the Tamiya one. if the money is worth it to you, then go ahead. Personally, I do like their kits, and the fit is, well, it’s a Tamiya fit. However, I do think that for the most part they are ridiculously overpriced, especially for possibly the biggest company in this hobby, and one clearly adept at forms of mass production.