I was watching some videos on the youtube and saw this guy thinning acrylic paint with windex. I use the stuff as an airbrush and paintbrush cleaner so I would be hesitant to use this stuff for thinner. However, my Tamiya x-20 is running low and is apparently become the holy grail of modeling supplies because I can’t find any online. Has anyone thinned with windex before?
I would be hesitant to use Windex as a thinner. Windex (at least the “classic” version) contains (or did contain) ammonia, which actually breaks down acrylic polymers.
Instead of X-20A, you can use Isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol (in either case, you may need to add a little acrylic retarder to the mix).
I know of some modellers who use windscreen washer fluid (commonly, Water + Isopropyl alcohol + propylene glycol + other surfactants).
If you are prepared to accept increased toxicity, you can also use Tamiya lacquer thinner or Mr Color Thinner (both of these work well with Tamiya acrylics).
Phil mentioned care screen wash, this is what i use. The one i get is from a UK chain and is there own brand, but i came across someone on here a week or so ago who users a similar item from a US chain, assuming you are in the states. The stuff i bought didn’t cost that much and last for ages. I also use it to clean my airbrush and have had no issues.
Really??? I haven’t heard of that before. Might have to look into it as a cheap alternative.
Phil_H - any ideas on where you buy denatured alcohol in Australia? I’ve asked at some chemists ('cause i had no idea where else to go and thought it might be used as an anti-bacterial) but they told me you can’t buy it over the counter. Do you know if it’s possible to buy and if so where?
Also, just to clarify, denatured alcohol is 90%+ correct? It’s not just that Isocol stuff (which it think is 70%) is it?
Thanks in advance.
Chris.
Hi Chris,
Isopropyl is very expensive here in Australia. Just the other day, I saw a 125ml bottle (pump/spray pack) in Big W for about $8.00. (This is the 99.7% pure stuff). A few years back when Dick Smith Electronics was clearing their stores of DIY/Hobbyist stuff, I picked up a couple of 250ml pump packs for about $2.00 each. I’ve also seen the (250ml?) pump packs at Bunnings in the painting solvents section around $8.95 from memory.
On the other hand, denatured alcohol is simply methylated spirits, which is only about $4.00 or so per litre. I use metho most of the time with Tamiya acrylics. [:D]
Considering what windex does to paint in my airbrush when I clean it I have no intentions of using it. I did a search on the subject and have determined I am going to give the alcohol and windshield fluid a try. My concern with windshield fluid is that all of it I have seen is colored usually pink or blue. I wonder if this could tint the paint any.
I stay away from anything that contains amonia. Amonia cleans acrylic like nothing else and is very effective in stripping out old stubborn acrylic. But amonia also may attack brass which is most airbrush made of.
Most varity of Windex contain small amount of amonia. Use with care in cleaning. Never use in thinning.
Whenever using acrylic paint in airbrush, clean immediately and never allow it to dry inside.
jdice, the stuff i use is a green colour, but it doesn’t effect the paint at all, even white. I picked up the tip from the Osprey Masterclass book on Luftwaffe Fighter modelling. The one i use, which is Halfords own brand, is the stuff you have to mix with water not the ready to use screen wash.
remember these are water based…good ol water works too…if you live in an area with high mineral content get some distilled water…usually comes in gallons…will last you forever…
Well, that’s embarrassing for me [:$]
I had no idea denatured alcohol was simply methylated spirits. Clearly, as you may have guessed, i’m not a handyman, do no work around the house and have no idea as to what is what in the hardware aisle.
I’ve read about and been wondering for years as to what denatured alcohol was, but always thought it was something you could only get in the US.
I think i’ll be switching over once my current supply of X-20A runs out.
Thanks Phil_H [Y]
Chris.
True - I know a lot of people in local hobby shops talk about using distilled water.
However, I’ve never been able to get it to work for me - don’t know what my problem is. I also like how the Tamiya brand seem to evaporate and make the paint touch dry within minutes.
Do you clean up with water? I can never get my airbrush nice and shiny with water, so i always resort to proprietary thinner and/or windex.
Chris.
I guess I’m lucky …I still have half a “jug” of the tamiya thinner…I recently used laquer thinner with Tamiya paint and had an excellent result…thins well and as for cleanup…best stuff around…but usually its Tamiya thinner for thinning and windex for cleaning…
c
Hi Chris,
Just as a follow-on, metho works fine with Tamiya acrylics as long as you remember that you’re airbrushing with an acrylic and not an enamel. People seem to have varying results with the Iso and denatured alcohol options because it dries so damn fast. Couple that to using techniques more suited to slower drying enamels and it’s an invitation to dusting and pebbling (where the paint dries before it reaches the subject)
The rules are:
- Thin a little more
- Use lower air pressure
- get up close and personal.
- Use an acrylic retarder when necessary.
Also, the alternative thinners don’t like to play nice with gloss Tamiya acrylics, often leaving a semi-gloss/eggshell finish. If you’re using gloss, stick with X-20A or Tamiya’s lacquer thinner.
OTOH, metho is great for cleaning your airbrush and paintbrushes. (also suitable for cleaning up Gunze aqueous acrylics and Vallejo)
Phil_H - thanks for the tips.
I’ll be sure to make note. I always seem to have issues spraying gloss (always seems to pebble) even when i do use proprietary thinner, so i think i’ll stick with that just to limit my number of headaches.
Might look at getting some metho as a clean up agent though.
As for retarders - i just bought a bottle of Tamiya acrylic retarder over the weekend (yellow cap). I’ve never used one before, but thought it couldn’t hurt to add to my arsenal of finishing products.
Are there any rules for using retarder? Do you just add a few drops whenever you mix the paint? Unfortunately all the instructions on the bottle are in Japanese, a language to which i’m completely ingnorant.
I never mix more than 2ml of paint at any one time - how much retarder would you consider necessary? Or is this something you only add when painting large volumes?
Thanks again.
Chris.
Hi Chris,
I highly recommend Tamiya lacquer thinner for airbrushing Tamiya gloss paints. (This is only available in the 250ml jugs with the yellow cap)
When you use the lacquer thinner, it super-extends the drying time and allows the paint time to level. Because the paint stays wet longer, it almost completely eliminates the pebbling caused by the overspray at the edge of your spray pattern (which is most often the cause of the pebbled finish you get when applying light coats using gloss Tamiya acrylics - each pass leaves a pebbly “track”).
You can airbrush almost glassy-smooth light coats, which you often can’t do even with the proprietary X-20A thinner (without laying down heavy coats). It literally transforms the paint. The lacquer thinner gives the paint a much more enamel-like behaviour.
As far as retarders go, I don’t often use them (I use a generic one from an art supplies shop) as I find that my personal techniques seem to obviate the need, but I was able to find this re. the Tamiya retarder:
I just laid down a coat of ocean grey on a Spitfire thinning with distilled water. That was an interesting experience. When the paint made contact with the surface it appeared almost like alcohol in that it was visibly wet for a split second and dried ultra fast. I also appears as if it is drying much flatter than normal. Also, the paint isn’t really grainy but its kind of rough. It also seems like my preshading was more difficult to cover up. Obviously I don’t want to cover it all the way up but it took considerable effort to undo the obviousness.
Im trying alcohol tomorrow on a beater.
I don’t like to thin Tamiya acrylics with water. To a certain extent, it will work, but go much past 1 part water to 2 parts paint and it tends to lose adhesion and starts to bead and run.
As you have discovered, it dries to a chalky, rougher finish. If you had laid down a wetter coat, you would also probably discover that the pigment separates and you would have slightly lighter patches and “tide marks” and swirls where the lighter pigments have leached out and floated on top of the darker pigments.
Chalky…that’s the word I was looking for to describe the result. I am going to go look at it in a minute since it’s been on a couple of hours. I did notice some variation in color too, but the effect seemed similar to what I would have done with subsequent lighter shades of the same color. If I don’t like it I will just wet sand with a light grit and reapply as I didn’t put on too heavy a coat. I had used Vallejo black for the preshading with the water and it behaved much better.
They’re alcohol based paints, why not thin with alcohol? And yes, I read the rest of this thread.
Some acrylics are water based, some alcohol and some lacquer or solvent. Not saying you have to stay with the manufacturer’s thinner, just stick with what it’s based on. Yeh, lacquer thinner works well with Tamiya acrylics and I have no problem with the odor but alcohol works just as well with the flat colors. If denatured alcohol dries too quickly then try 90% Iso. If that’s still too fast then try 72% Iso. Or, use X20A. If you still need a little help then add a few drops of retarder. Plain old glycerin works. Or Liquitex, Golden and others sell retarders but their paints are waterbased. The biggest reason Tamiya acrylics may seem to work better with their lacquer thinner or Mr Color thinner is that those thinners are mild and are basically slow drying. With lacquer thinners you have fast, medium and slow thinners and which one you use is based on temperature. Fast when it’s cold and slow when it’s hot. Generally when you use retarders with them it’s because you don’t have the thinner you need for the conditions. When you add retarder to Tamiya or Mr Color lacquer thinner you’re creating a very slow drying thinner and that’s why it will level so well. But, you need to allow a little more time between coats to allow it to gas out or you’ll end up with lifting or cracking. The biggest reason I use denatured alcohol with Tamiya is because you can work with much thinner paint, it will still cover well and still have good adhesion or film strength.
But it looks like you’re on the right track. You really have to experiment and find out for yourself. That’s the only way you’ll ever know for sure. I just got a bottle of Tamiya lacquer thinner so I plan to play around with it a bit and see what happens. It has the same odor as Mr Color thinner.
Tony
I did a round of Tamyia with 90% Iso today and it worked swimmingly. The only problem I had was clogging on the nozzel due to it drying up in there. Was a hassel, but I liked the way the paint went down.