The Worlds BIGGEST ship ?

General Discussion FSM Ready Room
21

The ship is quite stable just by how wide she is. I don’t know the specifics of her underwater design but lots of ships have fixed stabilazers along the hull. Many of them also have retractable wing like surfaces. All of the heavy stuff is also as low as possible such as the huge engine/s, balast tanks and fuel tanks while the higher structures are made as light as possible. Quite possibly that she has an anty heeling system, we had it on a heavy lifter althought it was used only during cargo handling.

As fare as safety, it is true that you are in hands of a hotel staff. I can’t imagine evacuating thousands of people from her, lots of them very likely seniors. Either way, these huge ships are not my cup of tea.

22

Castlenuovo !

You have to admit though , one rogue wave ( they’re out there ) , would do her in . Sailing for a well known company in the oil industry we had to have the deckhouse replaced after a Rogue Hit .

Seven million dollars worth of damage ! .The front of the deckhouse for five decks looked like we got hit by a freight train traveling about 120 M.P.H. !

Luckily the ship was very well built and loaded at the time .Whatta oil spill that would’ve been ! T.B.

23

I saw this episode too. It does have rams that are retractable, but this won’t stop it from toppeling over despite the fact that the engines, are below the waterline. There are NO ballast tanks since this is not a submarine - meaning that there’s no need to submerge below the waves. However, think of all the other ships that have gone down that weren’t as high as this one. Plus when you think about it this is a engineering nightmare! The top of this will greatly weight every bit as much as the engines, and more. Think of it this way; there are what, seventeen decks? Think of all the wood, steel, rubber, glass, plastics, as well as all the amenities such as beds, pillows, curtains, carpets, dining rooms, tables, chairs, and kitchen(S) as there are more than one, all the luggage, people furnishings, water, electrical, plumbing, drop cieling tiles, rigging to hold them up, entertainment facilities, and any musical instruments, as well as lighting for stages all will determine the overall weight of the vessel not just engines, and batteries.

The bottom of the hull is HOLLOW, and therefore will not be a factor in the overall weight. Despite the fact that the top of the superstructure of the hull is empty in the middle you still have all the weight of the parts that ARE there, as well as all the weight that they will hold. Ultimately there are so many variables that it boggles the mind! There are so many logistical things that can go wrong with a ship of this size, and evacuation would be a nightmare especially since the lifeboats are closest to the first main deck; meaning that you would have to run down to the first deck to get off the ship before it sinks! It’s also the mindset that this won’t sink is nothing more than a false sense of security. Think of the Titanic, and how some people thought that it was “PRACTICALLY UNSINKABLE” in the actual quote in the London Times. It didn’t say that it truly was. However, people are always going to have more faith in technology than they ever will in God, so think of all the poor souls that have gone down to the bottom of the sea without a care in the world one day, and gone forever the next.

~ Cobra Chris

24

Ah Cobra ;

Now you are beginning to see how I see this foolish world today .I cringe at what companies are willing to do to get as many of those " Bucks " as they can . And yes , it’s a shame if she should ever suffer the same fate as the " Costa Concordia ".

Now that said , I wonder if anyone will ever see a real passenger ship built again . And not a Hotel/Theme-park on a self propelled barge ? The direction of design is in no way what I have called in the past , on these pages , " Logical Progression of Design " T.B. P.S. I woud still like to see the rest of the squirrel band .

25

Agree with some of the above. I have never seen a rogue wave but have heard about their destructive powere. Still, the stability of the cruiseships would be the last of my worries. The lower parts of the ship is constructed of much thicker and heavier steel then the higher parts which are built to be as light as possible. The numerous pools do add some weight but in the grand scheme of things it is not that much and the pools can be drained quickly if needs be.

The bottom of the ship is hallow, it has to be, to provide buoyancy, but it is loaded with very heavy stuff such as engines, fuel tanks, water tanks, desalinization plant, grey water treatment equipment etc and yes, they do have balast tanks, they are not just for submarines, surface ships have them too.

Then there is the underwater stabilization systems, such as retractable wings.

Grey water from sewage is also kept on board and can be used as a balast. Balast tanks can be kept empty and filled with seawater when you need extra stability such as when sailing empty (mostly cargo ships, hence the term “sailing in a balast”) or if the ship is partly loaded but in heavy seas. Cruiseships are not an exception, they have balst tanks and an active balance system and they do use them. Each ship has to undergo a sea trial befor getting a certificate of seaworthines and that includes a stability test.

Underwater shape of the hull also plays part. “U” shape ships with flat bottom are much more stable (also slower) then a "V’ shape hulls.

Insurance for these ships is expensive, just imagine the liability if it capsizes. Also, these ships tend to stay in calm weather zones where the passingers can have a good time. The ship has to be stable for passenger comfort too as a comfortable passenger will eat and drink, that is, spend money.

My main worry would be evacuation due to out of control fire. Getting to the lifeboats with so many people…

26

Castlenuovo;

You hit the nail on the head , Suppose that did happen ? How many folks know that Aluminum and Magnesium become flammable at high heat , Explosive even ? Now you’re on deck five .

The fire is raging below you .You have to Descend to the lifepods . Oops , no can do . Jump from your balcony ? Not a good idea . A jump into salt water from that heighth would be the same as jumping from a four story building and hitting concrete .Not pretty indeed !

If she rolls it would be quick and dirty . No help there . Sorry , Not for me , and You could call me a seasoned veteran of the high seas . T.B.

27

Sorry I’m late to this. I assume that naval architects have done stability studies of this, including the free surface effect of having a water park on an upper deck. I also assume, not having seen the actual lay-out, that there ARE ballast tanks, as well as fuel and fresh water tanks below the water line. The problem with designing passenger ships, this may be counter intuitive, is having TOO MUCH stability. In other words, you don’t want a ship that has so much righting moment that she rolls too sharply. You want a slow easy roll so grandpa isn’t thrown out of his bunk.

Having said all that, my seaman’s instinct agrees with TB. This many passengers is an awful lot for what amounts to poorly paid hotel staff and flag of convenience crew to handle in a catastrophe.

I wouldn’t go to sea on one of these.

Fred

(Edit) Recall an incident a few years ago when a cruise ship heeled over while at speed in a calm sea? Something went wrong with the steering and the rudder went hard over at full speed. These ships have such a small GM that it doesn’t take too much to heel them over. If you’ve seen a warship in a big turn heeled over, you see what the effect of a hard rudder angle can do. This doesn’t mean they are unstable. The technical term is ‘tender’, rather than ‘stiff’.

28

Hi ;

I would second you on that .The worst thing for a ship’s captain and crew is to be on a " Tender " ship . Although nowadays they probably don’t really know about this aspect . Or if they are even taught this .

A ship like this in moderate to what is considered smooth seas is fine . Now you start up the scale and you will find problems . The higher the sea state number , the more danger of course . For a " Tender " ship they are critical .

If I were to travel by sea I would definitely travel on a Tanker in one of their nicely appointed passenger cabins . On the boat deck by the way .No " Cruise Director " Just a good book , good Brandy and sunshine in a lounge chair in the passenger deck area .

Much safer and more relaxing . No little screaming , temper trantrum throwing children to ruin the trip .Peace and Quiet .That’s what cruises were originally . T.B.

29

Castelnuovo - I’m afraid that you don’t know what you’re talking about, let alone what I’M talking about. Ballast refers to anything that is taken on by a boat that needs to submerge in order to be unseen, and therefore “Stealthy”. Since submarines are designed to be hollow they are full of air that can’t be vacuumed out or the crew would die. The only way for the ship to submerge would be to take on more weight and the only way to do that is to have something that is quite heavy, available, and ready to be used at a moments’ notice. This is of course the only thing that CAN be used, and that’s the sea water around it. As the ships’ ballast tanks fill with water this makes the entire ship sink downwards. This is controllable as the tanks can be filled and closed by controls at the seamens’ control center where the Captain sits, and monitors his crew, and vessel.

In essence; the more water the deeper the vessel can go into the ocean as needed to evade the enemy around them. In a giant boat that is self-sufficient there’s no need to add more water to it to make it heavier than it already is otherwise you’d have the first deck sink to the water line! There’s no need for a desalination tank since these boats are filled with FRESH water when they leave port. Sure they have tanks for them, but the only fresh water used is for the showers, sinks, and drinking as well as the water the kitchens use. The toilets use the same type of sanitary system that airliners use - solid waste disposal units. The same with the used run-off from the sinks, showers, and kitchens. This is stored in tanks that are returned, and drained when the ship goes back to port. These cruises only last for one week, maybe two at the most. They aren’t like aircraft carriers that can go to sea for months on end! Those are equipped to do so - not cruise ships. Another thing to consider: I had a 15’ foot swimming pool that held 1,500 gallons of water. We used CLORINE to clean the pool with as this is the proper protocol when cleaning pools, and for maintaining their cleanliness.

It takes 8 HOURS to drain one of these through a one inch hole - imagine how long it would take to drain an olympic size swimming pool which holds about 660,000 gallons through a four inch hole! That’s 5,280,000 LBS. of water to drain. No friend - they DON’T have an emergency protocol for emptying a swimming pool unless they’re going to use it to put out a fire! Think about everything that I said - people, clothing, their belongings, the tables, chairs, equipment, carpeting, furnishings, tools, kitchen utensils, the kitchen staff, hotel staff, ships’ crew, their belongings, clothing, tools, equipment, all the materials, and supplies that they keep on hand the ships brig - (yes there is a place for unruly customers), the infirmary, all their supplies, lighting for the whole ship and all its’ wiring, glass, rubber, glue rivets, screws, wood, steel, aluminum (which is what is used to skin the upper decks now), fuel, as well as the engines themselves, the fuel inside them, the oil tanks, all that empty space means nothing!

The stabilizers are only five feet wide - that’s not a lot of surface area to stabilize a boat of this size since there are only two on each side of the ship! It takes about two to three years just to refit one of these cruise liners. This is why cruise lines have more than one ship available so that they can keep making money if one of their fleet goes down. It’s an astronomical figure to build one of these not to mention the five to ten years that it takes to plan, engineer, financially fund, and build one of these behemoth nightmares! Don’t forget about the army of lawyers, and accountants, personal assistants, and secretaries that you’ll need. The multitude of contractors, and goverment agencies that also get involved along with OSHA. There’s a lot more to this than most people will ever know, or understand. A friend of mine and I were going to start our own cruise line funded by hotel casinos, and restauraunts - A HUGE MISTAKE!! It would’ve broken us both financially, and spiritually if we had gone through with it since the logistics of having to oversee so many employees, security staff, overhead bosses, as well as the money just to foot the bill for a new cruise liner, and hotel would’ve cost over $260,000,000 alone! Most of that for a new boat. Yes friends, there’s a lot more that goes into this than you realise!

: ( <----- sad face

~ Cobra Chris

30

Since you’re being snarky, Chris-

Cruise ships have sea water ballast, in considerable amounts. Like 1,000 tons.

An Olympic swimming pool would be something to see on a cruise ship. But it would be bad business practice- hard to stand with a cocktail in 2 meters of water.

Cruise ships do have desal plants, and they produce a lot of filtered water and hold it in very large tanks. Like 500,000 gallons.

As for submarines, they don’t take on water to dive. They take on water ballast to go to neutral bouyancy. Then they rely on forward motion over their dive planes to dive.

Taking on water to dive could have disastrous consequences.

These “blow the tanks and pop out of the water” things are all show.

31

I frequent a forum dedicated to playing submarine simulation games. One of the complaints among players is that the sub dives too slowly, but if they select ‘Crash Dive’ it takes them all the way down to 70 meters before they level off, so they can’t crash dive in shallow water. I am constantly pointing out what you just mentioned, where normal dives are concerned, but that in a crash dive the ballast tanks are filled, trim tanks pump 50 tons or more of water forward, and it takes a long time to recover from that condition. It’s one or the other, and there ain’t no free lunch.

32

Eyes rolling and head shaking…

33

True. And vacuuming out the air would make the thing even more bouyant still.

34

My understanding is that full seawater ballast tanks give subs a slight negative bouyancy. Once submerged they are trimmed to a very slight positive bouyancy, and drive around using their planes to control their depth.

In the event of a failure of some sort in the pumping system, you want to be on the surface getting bombed, not sitting on the bottom of the sea.

Getting WAY off topic here, my F-in-Law flew four hour out-four hour back missions. He said that on the return leg, if the aircraft was intact, they fly with a slight trim to climb on the elevators, and control level with the stick, so as not to fall asleep, pass out from wounds, etc.

35

Maybe I don’t understand negative and positive bouyancy. I assume from just general language that positive bouyancy means it floats. Is this incorrect?

36

No, it’s not incorrect. If a sub has a slight positive bouyancy, it will tend to rise to the surface. If the sub has forward speed and water is flowing over it’s horizontal control surfaces, it can control its attitude and therefore its depth.

Submarines don’t just go up and down by flooding their tanks or emptying them.

Empty tanks, they float, full tanks, they are fully submerged. Preferrably just below the surface and not visible to radar.

37

In reading up my facts before a couple of replies here, I learned a new term. Kentledge. A cast iron block used for ship ballast. So central to a ship design in the 18th C and apparently expensive, that it shows up as a line item right below cannons in appropriations applications for the USS Constitution.