The secret to winning contest gold?

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
21

Funny you should say that. The last contest I entered was AMPS East, up in CT. Due to time constraints and thinking that I could finish a 1/72 tank faster than I actually could, the model wasn’t complete until the night before the show at around 12:00 AM. Yeah, I crammed, just like I did in high school.

Knowing this, I had very little expectations, feeling Bronze was the best I could hope for. In the end, it took gold. A pleasant surprise, to be sure.

Do I think I was chumping myself? Not really, I did my best for the time that I had.

22

Jon : As stated I it is "my belief’ .

You yourself stated a bronze would 'be the best I could hope for" does this mean you build and enter to lose?

Sounds like self-chumping to me!

Would you do it again or give yourself more time?

What you say there is 'leave it to the last minute ,it’ll be ok"

Things are gonna get sporty round here …!

Remember my comments are my own opinion and sectioning off segments for other use ,dilute the original meaning!

I did speak to disgruntled competitors at our show and their models were eliminated due to relevant issues ,people are gonna whine no matter what.

My Scammel(see avatar) was completely panned in Soft skin for some tiny 1/144 scale 3 piece kits.I was thinkin’ ( and others) it was gonna be a winner .It was a bear of a kit and I put all I had into it ,I listened to the judge and when he said there was decal silvering 1/8 " away from any decal I held my tongue, and accepted his decision.

This was all tempered by the Bobber win ,the only one of 4 entry’s to win any thing, being a unanimous decision by most if not all of the judges.

Being in the manufacturing sector my whole life ,last minute ‘finishing’ is generally a recipe for disaster,usually resulting in customer dis-approval.

I am glad you won ,but what about the guy who took enough time to get his entry finished with time to spare and was denied? Tough cookies?Pure luck on your part?

I realize these are only models but seeing grown men on the verge of tears after a contest is food for thought, and makes me want to be as good a modeler as possible and present models to my peers for their respect and approval.

Please dont section off SOME of my commentary, I hate that.

23

Krow

First let me apologize for the sectioning off of your commentary. Out of a desire to conserve space, I’m gonna do it - sorry that you hate it. I’m just hoping that those that read my comments will have also read yours so the ‘sectioning’ of your comments will not be an issue.

As to your observation of ‘self-chumping’… I’m not sure… I’ve been in the same spot as Jon, having a build that I want to get done for a show, but running short on time so I find myself spraying dullcoat over the bathroom sink in my hotel at 10:30 the night before. Am I setting myself up for ‘failure’? Perhaps, but just like Jon, the model that I did that to placed in the show I entered it in and I walked away happy. In addition, I think it can only be ‘self-chumping’ if you are entering only to win. Some of us enter for fun…

24

bbrown apology accepted .You may be right ,just as Jon may be right ,two different philosophies toward work at play here. I do get serious about the modeling ,but I still have fun and am well known at meetings for saying just that .

After a lot of rushing around at the last minute manufacturing for customers two things become evident: One -you don’ wanna do it like that all the time. And Two-You become aware that you are not doing your best for the customer.In the modeling genre this could be translated into disrespect for the judges and your peers. Perhaps a little too serious ,but some guys get real bent if they dont win ,our resident figure champion was beaten ,he took it like a man but was not happy! Some others were on the verge of tears!

If this post is about how to get ‘contest gold’ which philosophy would garner CONSISTENT results?

I stress consistency to stay in the spirit of the post. Cool discussion ,and not to be taken lightly.

25

Ahh, Krow, I think I see your point a little more clearly… sorry my brain is a little sleep deprived…[8-|]

Yes, I agree, the ‘strategy’ that I described is definately NOT the prescription for consistently competing for gold. I guess, as you say, in the context of this discussion (a la the topic of the thread), it is, in fact, a pretty poor strategy actually…[:P]

26

Krow, sorry for sectioning off some of your previous commentary, I was simply quoting that to highlight the point I was making. Now then, in my defense, I said “funny you should mention that”. Funny being the key word here, in that my story was more anecdotal and perhaps more an example of what not to do.

However, I still believe the finished product was worth entering the show. I am my own worst critic, as I’m sure we all are and I feel that if I produce something that isn’t good enough, it won’t be entered. This is why I’ve been to 6 shows and only entered 2.

Giving myself more time isn’t always an option. My hobby isn’t always at the forefront of time spent for me and bench time usually falls during the end of the day, when work is over and the kids are in bed. Since that doesn’t come 'til about 10 PM, its difficult to get quality work time. Sooooooo, best case scenario, yes, I’ll give myself more time. Can I guarantee that? No. Was my experience a formula for success? No. But I think it shows, despite my own harsh criticism, that I was able to produce a good model given the time I had. Every one works differently and has different expectations.

27

I think this has been a really interesting, if somewhat-contentious discussion.

I’m pretty much a veteran od modeling contests, and I’ve been extremely successful in them. At one contest I took 10 models and came home with 12 trophies. At this point, I don’t need to win to satisfy any ego or allay any insecurities about my modeling. But I can definitely say that echolmberg has a definite point that I would call valid in some circumstances. I’ve also judged contests, and can tell you that as both a contestant and a judge, I’ve seen some absolutely indefensible and inexplicable decisions, as well as some egregious errors of judging–sometimes from my fellow judges in the very group that I’ve been in.

Al, you have a point too, but I think that maybe you and the AMPS society are working “on a higher plane”. Put simply, I think that AMPS and AMPS judges hold themselves ot a higher standard of integrity. Some of the local club contests that I’ve been to have been just shameful in their judging–where obviously-superior models of incredible quality are beaten by plainly, easily-dismissible models. And I’m not grousing about my own misfortunes. These have been against some showstoppers where the 1st place is announced, and half the room is turning to each other and whispering “HUH?!” I think that one of the first qualifications for judging should be that you have to be qualified. It seems that sometimes the only requirement is that you’re a warm body, and some guys I’ve judged with have picked on things that were just plainly irrelevant to the :“worth” of the model.

I also agree with krow113 about rushing around to finish a model the night before and then being shocked that it didn’t place*.“If this post is about how to get ‘contest gold’ which philosophy would garner CONSISTENT results?”--words of wisdom in my book.*

28

Re-reading this post , it is a little disturbing to see the nepotism described early on ,and the acceptance by the writer of that. I personally would not enter a contest of any type if it was that obvious to every one who is gonna win. I do see our guys 'putting on blinders" to keep to the judging criteria ,it seems simple but can get complicated if a rush to judgement is made or one judge is too head strong. I would venture that this may be the reason the junior tables are a little barren at some contests.My own judging/modelling experience at this time is very much in the learning/observing mode.

Excellent subject ,perhaps contentious ,but very relevant and needed. Our contest this year, was by all accounts, the least controversial for a long time.

29

Hi guys,

I really wish I had taken a better picture of the 1/48 B-58 which took 1st place in the “post-1945 1/48 scale aircraft” category. If you had seen all the sanding scratches, recribing slip-ups, unmasked canopy frame paint job, freehanded painting of the wing tips and vertical tail tip, and poorly sanded seams, you would then know why I was a bit upset when models like that won all across the board.

Couple that with the fact that when the winner was announced and they went up to receive their award, the presenters and the recipient(s), all seemed to know each other. Yes it’s true that they didn’t all know each other, just the mere fact that a lot of them did sort of de-legitimized the whole thing.

Eric

30

Eric

I can understand your frustration, but to a certain extent, I think that the nature of our hobby makes it likely that ‘winners’ and ‘presenters’ will know one another. I’ve been going to the same show for the past three years in a row. It has gotten to the point where I know a significant number of the people there. I end up judging some of their builds, too. Our community is small so I think it is unrealistic to expect a judging panel that is not familiar with the participants. I mean, what would the alternative be? Should members of a club not be allowed to enter into the contest for the show that their club hosts?

31

I guess there’s no way around it. As long as anything involves the subjective nature of human beings, it will be flawed from the get-go. One can only hope the subjectivity is kept in check. But until that happens, there’s really just no way around the biased nature of it all. In the case of the contest I participated it, it was not kept in check as much as it should or could have been. Like I said, you should have seen the models which won. You would have been astounded (and not in the good way).

Eric

32

I guess, in a sense, I have been fortunate. While I am sure there is a certain degree of nepotism at every show, the ones I have participated in (AMPS style) seem to have kept it to a minimum. For example, AMPSEast, the show that I’ve become a ‘regular’ at in the last couple years, does not seem to have that type of issue. Sure, some people might have individual complaints about how their models were judged, but I don’t think there is a systemic problem that rewards club members at the expense of others.

33

I’ve entered many contests and won a fair share of awards. I have also judged a number of contests. Aside from an occasional bias here or there, the judges were honest and knolwegeable within the “judging criterion”. However I don’t think competition will ever be completely void of some sort of political twists. Everyone, judge or contestant, has their own little nitch that they like or even dislike. If you are entering a contest, do your best but also do expect some rejection. To come away with an award is always nice. To be offered some “constructive” criticism is not a bad thing.

I haven’t entered a contest in years. For the most part I now build for myself. I will do an occasional contract job here and there. But, these are on my timetables, not the clients. I am too old to worry about meeting deadlines.

It’s a hobby, enjoy yourself.

34

I’ve only judged the Dioramas and I’m well-known as “The Hammer” there as well… I’m ruthless and Yes… “Size DOES Matter”… Big dioramas, the ones with mutiple vehicles, structures, a dozen fgures, landscaping, foliage, all that stuff… EVERY part of the diorma is a model, and is judged as one model… Even if the kits and figures and structures are impeccable, they can be taken down by a poor landscaping job, or badly-placed foliage (wires showing, that kind of thing), or sloppy base, misspelled title, any of which is as glaring an error as a missed parting line or un-filled fuselage seam or a paint run on the display models… The bigger the diorama, more chances to blow it…

AND I have and USE a right-angle fiber-optic Maglite… That German machine-gunner running over there? You should have pressed his foot ALL the way down on the pin, Mien Herr…Because I see… I see… LIGHT!!! LIGHT UNTER DIE FOOTEN-SPLATTEN!!! RAUS!!!

Mein GOTT!!! Was ist DAS??? Eine UNT-painted ack-zellerator pedal in zat 251??? And zee drifer’s left foot is… MISSINGK??? Und Mit-oudt ein Blut und Bandagen??? RAUS, RAUS MIT DICH!!!

You vant to be my freund now,eh?.. Ahh… Time to fix, perhaps? Ach zo… Zat time hass… Passed… Mein Herr…

Bwuuuhhahahahahahaaaaa…

NEXT!!

35

Was that over the top? I can never tell…[t$t]

36

For you, no. For any other human being, yep. But that’s Hans…

This is SIGGED!

37

LOL…

38

Ya know, this brings up a question from me, how do people judge, in a IPMS, if a plastic model uses things other then plastic. I am going to enter a few kits in the next Mosquito con in new jersey definatly. I am going to enter my rorschach, but one of the thing is that I made his mask out of a sock, will that be looked down on?

Also, if the contest judges judge stuff they dont enter in, I think I am going to buddy up with wingnut a bit more since my stuff will end up in figures or scifi

39

According to IPMS USA National Contest Rules as of 2009:

Section II, Composition and Judging, Paragraph 2. “Composition”

As for how and what they’re judged on, the following is from Section II, Paragraph 1:

“Scope of Effort” is one criterium in which many people who don’t place higher than they expected failed to realize that “The Devil’s in the Details” and why, in a lot of cases, models with scratch-built and/or kit-bashed super-details will place higher than those who’ve used commercial after-market parts, provided they are fairly accurate, logical, and well-executed.

A “for instance” (I’m gonna go with Dioramas here, since that’s what I do) would be something like Shep Paine’s P-61 Maintenence Diorama in which he scratch-built the wiring harness, pushrods, rear crankcase and carburator details of the kit’s left P&W Radial… While not an exact, nut-for-nut, bolt-for-bolt replica, Shep’s engine obviously was well-researched, well-done, overall pretty accurate, and took much more effort than simply buying and painting a complete, after-market resin engine…

Now, were another P-61diorama sitting there as well, depicting the same action or event (an engine-change with the one engine being completely exposed and detached from the aircraft), that dio-builder, even though he is tied with Shep’s dio up to this point and HIS engine is more accurate, would likely lose, since the engine he used is a commercially-available after-market detail kit and did NOT require nearly the same level in “Scope of Effort”… Conversely, the same scenario but one P-61 isn’t showing the entire engine removed, and the other is, but with the afore-mention commercial after-market engine, the latter would “take the medal”, all other things being equal… Also because it carries a “stronger” theme or story than the other…

40

This is an area that often is not followed at IPMS contests…and the main reason we are having this discussion, IMO…someone can trick out a tank with PE, resin, etc and put hundreds of hours in a tank kit, but another OOB kit will beat it because someone saw a “shiny spot” on the clearly superior and more "difficult and ambitious build…