Hello all. Maybe I’m missing something very obvious here, but hopefully someone out there can enlighten me.
What is the original of the popular plastic model scales (in the case of airplanes, 1/32 1/48 and 1/72)? I can tell the numbers 32, 48 and 72 have a difference of 1.5 magnitude between each other, but I fail to see why these scales are the de facto standards. Why 1/72 and not say, 1/70? Anyone care to give me a history lesson?[:)]
Thank you.
Terry
I was wondering that myself. In the case of 1/48 72 and 32 the number swork out neatly. 1/48= 1 inch= 4 feet.
Generally on a base 12 system like inches to feet it’s easier to go with denominators divisible by 12 (1/144 1 inch = 12 feet, 1/72 1 inch = 6 feet, 1/48 1 inch = 4 feet, 1/24 1 inch = 2 feet). Not sure why 1/36 was skipped over for 1/35 and 1/32.
In the very early days, there were no constant scale kits. Used to be what was called box scale. A manufacturer had a standard size box & scaled the kits to fit the box. I believe Airfix was the first to standardize on a scale. Why they chose 1/72, I don’t know, but it quickly became the standard scale for several years. Companies then began exprimenting with the other scales, 1/48, 1/32, 1/24., 1/144. These all have a natural progression of size. Gradually, 1/48 has become the most popular scale, offering a good compromize between size & detail. In recent years, 1/32 is enjoying a surge of popularity. Personally, I always thought 1/60 would be an ideal scale.
Regards, Rick
I read somewhere that 1/72 was the scale used to train Home Defence volunteers in Great Britain during WW II; all the planes were only black silhouettes and the scale was constant to help recognise one kind from another one; I think they were made of bakelite . In FSM there is an article (around 2000 ? ) on the equivalent for USN gunners and observers; in this case, it was an array of white metal waterline battleships. As for constant scale versus box scale, there was a not so distant past when Glencoe still made odd scales. In France, across the time, we had 1/40, 1/50 and 1/60 th scale ( all metric ) Solido was in metric scale and former Heller too; there also was 1/125 and so on, but in the end I believe this resumed for Heller in making box scale in a fake metric scale; someone told me that box scale was made to accomodate model boxes on the shops shelves; okay, but in my humble opinion, a single engined fighter almost the same volume as a multiengined bomber is rather odd.
Torio has it mostly right. In WWII any kid who built solid models built 1/72 scale recognition models, not just for the home folks but for military and naval recognition training (or so we were told). This particular scale was supposed to represent the size of the actual plane seen at a distance of 1/2 mile, I think it was. School wood shops cranked out thousands of pine profile “kits”, which were then carved and sanded to the appropriate shapes, assembled, and yes, painted black. Any enhancements such as L/G or props were rejected. These silhouettes represented in-flight appearance. Many, I’m sure, ended their days before they started, victims of hand-held dogfights. Kids were kids even then.
Dick
Hi all,
The best history of scales that I’ve seen is here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/scale-model
BY the way, here’s some information from the “Browse by Subject” area to the left of this forum:
What scale is right for your next model?
by Terry Thompson
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/default.aspx?c=a&id=293
Regards,
I thought the first scale was developed by two cavemen engineers, Dr. Werner Voon Ogg and Sir Limey Livingston Groog, when they sought to settle a dispute, as to which weighed more, a 5 lb hunk of brontosaurus meat or a 5 lb hunk of tyrannosaurus meat.
The device was a simple lever/beam balance, and when Dr. Ogg put his thumb on his end, it all went downhill from there.
The dispute was a terrible thing to behold, and it resulted in a centuries long antagonism between what became known as the British and Germans peoples.
[:o)]
Tom [C):-)]
I don’t know about that, Tom. After all, the Kaiser was Queen Victoria’s grandson. No, I think the millenia-long antagonism is between the French and the Germans.
Of course, despite fighting with and for France in two world wars, the British aren’t too happy about changing over to the Metric system – a liter of beer not having the same ring as a pint of beer (despite being more in the mug). I’m pretty sure the French are to blame for the metric system. [;)]
Regards,
I can speak from experience as regards the comments of riawson - I cannot recall anyone at school building “recognition” models, and having had some of these after the war - and used them in the Air Training Corps (junior RAF) I doubt they were made by schoolchildren - they were indeed of wood and painted black to resemble a aircraft at a distance and yes they were sans U/C - props and any detail not visible from some distance. They were very well made - probably by carpenters and the like. There must have been literally thousands of them made - they were often available for sale in surplus shops after the War - with leather helmets, jackets and hosts of instruments from dash boards and other equipment. However as almost every kid had one they were not sought after - unlike today. Oh that I had kept half of the souveniers I had as a kid - does not bear thinking about. Most of the kits one could buy were 1/72 - very crude - vaguely shaped bits of wood of varying hardness , a square inch or two of sandpaper, a tiny tube of almost solid balsa cement and some dowel slices for the wheels. I seem to recall that the canopies were however quite good. A firm called “Veri -True” produced some rather good 1/72 drawings - some of which I still have - thus they are now some 50 - 60 years old, and I believe quite accurate, with good detail.
It is also worth noting that some of the old ships draughts - from the 17th Century on are at 1/48 - and hence those for the battleships e.g “Dreadnaught” “Warsprite” etc.were very long indeed. The draughtsman must have walked a few miles whilst drawing the lines etc. The draughts were works of art in their own right.
So do you figure that Sir Groog disguised himself as a Frenchman?
Tom [C):-)]
As near as I can tell, the Metric System is all the fault of the French… and, well, the Americans. Here’s a neat timeline I found on the net (http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/dates.htm):
1585 – In his book “The Tenth” Simon Stevin suggests that a decimal system should be used for weights and measures, coinage, and divisions of the degree of arc.
1670 – Authorities give credit for originating the metric system to Gabriel Mouton, a French vicar, on about this date.
1790 – Thomas Jefferson proposed a decimal-based measurement system for the United States. France’s Louis XVI authorized scientific investigations aimed at a reform of French weights and measures. These investigations led to the development of the first “metric” system.
1792 – The U.S. Mint was formed to produce the world’s first decimal currency (the U.S. dollar consisting of 100 cents).
1795 – France officially adopted the metric system.
What does this have to do with scale? Well when the scale is presented as a ratio, there’s no problem. 1:72 means 1 inch or millimeter on the model represents 72 inches or millimeters on the real thing. However, figure sizes are often given in millimeters. I think 25mm figures are 1/72 scale and 54 mm figures are roughly 2.24 inches tall which works out to 1:32 scale.
What’s even weirder is when model ship builders give a scale like 3/16" = 1 foot. This translates to 1/64 scale (which, by the way, is half as large as 1/32 scale).
[:D]
Regards,
My answer from the Armor Forum on 10 Jan…
Different scales initially were developed because of the different sizes of the objects being molded. Originally, model manufacturers would simply select a scale that would produce a “reasonable” sized model and there was little consideration for continuity. Even today, particularly in the Figure and SciFi genres, scale is often an after thought.
As time went by, model manufacturers began to understand that standardizing models into standard scales was desired by the modeling community. The original scales were typically based originally on blueprints or on measurements from standard rulers. Primarily, the standard one foot ruler was used as a base and the scales 1/12 (1" = 1 foot) or 1/16 (1/16" = 1") were established as the starting point. Hence, 1/12 became 1/24, 1/36, 1/48, and 1/72 scales while 1/16 became 1/32, 1/48, and 1/64 scales.
1/35 scale has it’s origin in figure modeling. Long before injection molded kits, soldier figures were commonly made in a standard 50mm (2") height. When modelers began to express an interest in military vehicles, guns, and weapons to go with these soldiers, this converted to 1/35 scale - assuming that the figures were approximately 5’ 10" tall. The scale took hold and within a relatively short period of time, became the standard scale for most military subjects. Obviously, the smaller 1/72 and 1/48 scales, as well as the larger 1/16 scale, are used as well, but 1/35 is now firmly imbeded in the genre.
Hope this helps…
Back in the mid-60s when almost all scale a/c models were still box scale, I was in grade school, and had been modeling airplanes (if you can call it modeling. I was passionate about it, and spent every penny I could get on it, but skill…well, that’s another story.) But then I veered off from a/c to cars for a few years. Lo and behold, they were in constant scales, 1/24 or 1/25, and since there had been no constant a/c scale, I never became aware of the concept of scale until I noticed all my AMT and Revell car model boxes said 1/24 or AMT’s 1/25 on them.
When this thread started I began to think about that. Then I realized that cars by their very nature were already made for box scale. Being all generally in the same size range, unlike aircraft with their vast array of sizes, from a tiny Sopwith Camel to a B-36, you could squeeze pretty much any car into the same size box, and hence you got to have a constant scale.
Oh, there were the exceptions, like Monogram’s big 1/12 or 1/16 hot rod kits, but they were the equivalent of 1/24 planes today – exceptions that happened to be fun if you could save enough money to buy them. And speaking of that, I just remembered last night, thinking of some of the most enjoyable builds in my life. I went back to the age of 10 or 11, the day my grandfather came home bearing a gift of AMT’s 1/8 or 1/12 scale 1937 Cord, the first car with hideaway headlights and other innovations. What a beautiful model kit that was. I wonder what happened to it, or it’s release history after that first one. Imagine a fully detailed model in that scale that cost a grand total, and this was the MSRP, of $7 in 1966 or 67.
But then, how do we explain, now that I’m remembering this stuff, all those constant scale (1/48) Lindberg kits so many of us who began modeling in the 60s cut our teeth on? I remember an F-8 and a T-38 (with engines, no less) in particular, and the WW II Lindberg Corsair and the others in the same series which all had spinning props, and the electric motors that made them spin had to be built by the modeler from a bag of parts and copper wire to be wound yourself. If that motor worked, you were quite proud of yourself.
TOM
The 3/16’=1 foot scale comes directly off a standard drafting scale found at any professional stationary supply.
It’s really not weird, it is marked plainly on the ruler, and since ships’ drawings are made in feet and inches, it becomes a no-brainer for the drafter to convert it to the scale drawing for a full size plan in that scale.
Now going back to Dr. Werner Voon Ogg and Sir Limey Livingston Groog, now that this metric stuff looks like a French takeover of a British colony is what we have here, that would tell me that Herr Ogg was in fact a Frenchman in disguise, seeking to mess up relations between the British and Germans!
So that would go back to your point that although it looked as thought the British and Germans were at it in the 20th Century, it really was the French and British!
You see, although officially the French were on the Allied side, in WWII, I find it difficult to wink at the half of France that sided with the Nazi’s, Vichey France.
Gosh Luf, you really have a way of making things clear up![:D]
Tom [C):-)]
Actually it was a 5 lb hunk of brontosaurus meat vs. a 2.27 kg hunk of tyrannosaurus meat.
A good friend of mine pointed this error out ot me. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
Tom [C):-)]
That’s what they pay me for…they do pay me, don’t they?
Don’t they?
Regards,