After reading the intense discussion in the german armor forum I must admit that I’ve sometimes felt a little funny about building an SS tank or Luftwaffe aircraft. I often wondered if people would think the wrong thing. So I have to ask: Has anyone ever had their morality / loyalty / political motivation, etc. questioned after proudly showing off their Tiger tank or Japanese Zero or BF 109 Messershmitt? You know, I once had a Roman Catholic nun call me a murderer because I helped build Trident submarines. (I plan on building the 1/350 plastic version soon) I’m still not a murderer.
It’s history, and it’s just a model… people are always looking for a fight…
don’t let it bother you breezely…
to heck with what people think!!! build 'cause YOU want to…
I believe that what we make are representations of the MACHINERY of HISTORY. I haven’t seen anyone in the modelling world build out of political idealism. You know why you build what you build. That is your choice. If someone sees it as political advertising, that is their choice. I think that its important to remember that the original machines and the models are built by people, regardless of which point on the globe and what era into which they were born. There is no choice there. But we can choose how we view objects & representations of objects.
You can’t change a person’s ideas or beliefs. That is something only they can do. If they choose not to appreciate the results of a lot of effort & hard work, its their loss.
Its a hobby…THATS ALL! I build what I like…doesnt mean I support the political motivation or reasoning behind the forces that employed the machine! Geesh what is this world coming too…I shoot firearms for a hobby does that mean Im an armed maniac?(dont answer that!)…Just another example of the liberals in this country/elsewhere running off at the mouth for something which they have very little or no understanding of!
Dont let it get to you…Are you a murderer for helping build subs…Nope in my book your one of the behind the scenes heroes and I tip my hat to you!
Moral high ground my a**. I build to please myself first and foremost. If others appreciate my efforts, good for them. If not, that’s their loss. As far as the morality, etc, anyone that pursues that line of thought at a typical gathering of modellers has an agenda very different from everyone else there. PC myopia strikes again. breezyely1, I think that the nun you encountered needs to get out more, or at least read about it. There are true monsters in this world, and guys like you and me certainly don’t qualify for that title. You want murderes? Look to Iraq pre 1990; look at Cambodia around 1975…you know the litany as well as I do. Monsters like that are ignored because it didn’t happen here, so the little guys get targeted because it’s an easy out. Sorry, didn’t mean to stand on the soapbox for so long. Usually, the only comments I draw about the models I build from non-believers are about “grown men/women playing with toys”.
Breezly I think I understand what you’re saying and my answer to you is if you don’t plan on becoming a politician, don’t worry about it. You don’t have to be “politically correct” [:D]
Just build what you want to build and we’ll try to keep the “PC’s” from telling us we can’t by voting for the better ones. I have a hard time understanding some of the European countries keeping swastica’s from even being on a decal sheet. I’d try to make sure everyone remembered the history myself instead of trying to forget it. That only opens the door for it too happen again. A symbol doesn’t have anything to do with what happened.
Eric
[#ditto]
Often when history forgets its self it is destined to re-peat itself…for God sakes I hope not!
I hope we can get past this PC thing before we become a nation of wimps and whinners. Next time someone complains tell them to build their model the way they want it and if yours offends their delicate sensablities, they can avert their gaze. [soapbox]
I believe that most of us here build not to make any political statements of some sorts but to just to do something that we like to do most - build models. And that’s all there is to it. No more or less.
Build to satisfy yourself and not someone else. You did not write or make history, you are only displaying it. To ignore that part of history, is to pretend it did not happen. If you build a German WW ll aircraft, with kill markings on it, and someone questions your patriotism because of it, they do not understand history. A lot of bad things have happened through history. To ignore or pretend they didn’t happen is like sticking your head into the sand. You have not accomplished or changed anything. You just look foolish.
As for building weapons as a living, some worked as a deterent to prevent more powerful weapons from being used.
When I came back from South East Asia after spending four years there, a war protestor looked at the awards on my uniform and asked. “Which one of those is for killing small children”? I just pointed to one and said “This one” and walked off. He just stood there speachless because that wasn’t what he was expecting.
I once worked with a very wise man.
He told me that most modelers are fans of technology and what the machines do,not what they were used for.
When I build I don’t vision a sherman blowing holes in people.
I see a piece of technology and history.
Next time someone tells you are a bad person for building a product for use in defence of our nation
Ask them what they have done for this country and to protect our(and their’s) freedom.
Then remind them that this a free country and they are free to leave it any time.
You may even want to offer to buy them a one way ticket to the country of their choice.
I’ve wondered if I should build my Luftwaffe models also.
I guess this comes from having to look over my shoulder in our free
country so I don’t get ambushed. Aaah the joys of progress.[:(]
How would the sister feel if she was held responsible for
the churches actions throughout history? She’s not a murderer and
neither are you.People have questioned my motives for building military
models.What really bothers me about it is some of these people
question a persons morality etc. and claim their superiority.
They’ll criticize you for every little mistake and will not
think twice about saying or doing whatever it takes to hurt someone
or get ahead in life.[V] So much for the high ground.
Fuzzy
dont scratch the old wound…that was a heat topic with my old classmates (dont want to get political but mostly communists…yes we have plenty of them left in europe…lol) when i was showing them german, japanese, even finnish models…for a reason when they saw the yaks and sturmoviks with all these graffitis and slogans they were all joy!!!
i wonder how they cannot understand that they are reflections of history and not political manifestations…
ps as you are aware Walter Nowotny;s remains were removed from Austrian Invalides the heroes cemetery on the ground of his nazist past…the petition was started by a counsilor of british-jewish extraction- nothing implied just a fact-that had his grandparent killed as a bomber command crew. On the same way we saw the destruction of stalin’s lenin’s even saddam’s statutes…i think samples of them should remain so noone forgets the past. as they say if ou have not learned from the past you are doomed to repeat it.
I’ve seen a few kooky people around - Holocaust deniers, revisionists - that also happen to be very good modellers who build almost entirely WW2 German stuff. I don’t think the two are connected, rather the modelling flows from the same historical interest have most of us share in a period, even if that interest has developed along mislead and errorneous paths.
I doubt any modeller was corrupted by his hobby - there are far more insidious influences on people than sticking bits of plastic together and painting them. It can be an extension of an unhealthy interest in (for example) Nazism, but I doubt it has ever created it in the first instance. Just my 2p [:)]
Yeah, but you can deny it on television like most politicians do…
“I did not have relations with that model kit” or “I just opened the box but I did not use the glue” [;)]
ROFL someone remembers the Clinton days and the BS he was pumping the nation! Good One…my side still hurts!
This forum is for modelling, NOT politics!!![2c]
We now return you to our regualarly scheduled modelling!!!
Thanks everyone for your input. Make no mistake, I’ve always been proud of my role in our nations defense and am happily working on our nations next generation WMD. But after seeing the strong anti-SS sentiment in the armor forum, it made me stop and think. I always took it for granted that, if you built a Tiger tank , you wouldn’t have a problem putting SS unit markings on it. It never occurred to me that not everyone would see it that way. To those people who wont put the swastika on your German plane or the 3rd SS on your Tiger tank, you now have my deepest respect. I’ve always modelled for historical accuracy and will continue to do so. Didn’t mean to turn this into a PC forum, just wanted to know if anyone had been criticized for their choices.
My mother is French and was raised in France during the war-her father was crippled by the SS in a POW camp. She has never complained about my Panzers or FWs-although she has a right to. She looks at it as history. Now if I put on a red armband…