Stupid paint...

Modeling Subjects Aircraft
1

OK… the paint has beaten me and I’m just going to do it the easy way. I wanted to get acrylics instead of humbrol enamels (which I have a few of already) but they’re quite expensive.

Off memory the Revell enamels and Humbrol are quite similar so unless someone says otherwise I will mix them as required.

As my kits are all basically Revell at this stage I will just get the Revell paint and thus avoid the paint conversion nightmare. I don’t need this when restarting this hobby or I’ll go crackers and throw it in before I open a paint tin.

The local (100km away) hobby shop has the same prices for enamel paint as all the other Australian sites I looked at so I will use another sites cart to make the list and forward it to him to put aside when I’m in there next. With 50+ colors so far he’ll go part way to earning his hefty markup. Have to take the wife into the specialist in a week so I can drop in and thus avoid postage/courier (her turn to pay for the fuel in … hehehehe).

Seeing that I’m going/staying enamels I better stock up on turpentine and start work on the spay booth.

*** I thought all the kits but one I had omitted the painting instructions for the personnel. However I discovered there is a small bit of blurb in text with each kit that drops hints as to how each is painted.

How many different colors of paint do dudes usually keep on hand?

I was also thinking about putting a small lead ball bearing in each tin of paint I have so I can shake them up a bit easier… is this ok?

2

Test mixtures of Revell and Humbrol enamels before you mix in quantity.

Except for basic colors, I don’t try to keep any particular paint on hand, but I never throw anything away.

Do not put a lead shot into the paint, or any other kind of ball bearing, for that matter. Shaking small bottles of paint is the worst way to mix it because it entraps air in the paint and is not very thorough. The best way is to be patient and stir.

Other than stainless steel, ball bearings may react with some of the components in the paint, causing problems.

The exception may be lacquers, but even then, I’d use steel and remove it after agitation.

3

I use the Tamiya series of acrylics and have almost the entire set! I mainly model WWII stuff so I don’t bother with colors like Park Green or Gloss Purple. I buy a couple of bottles almost every time I’m in the LHS. Mind you I’m lucky to have a decent LHS within a ten minute drive! I have a list of the colors I have and the colors I’m missing or low on.

I concur with Ross about using ball bearings. Stirring is the slow and sure way to mix paints. I recall someone posting about using ball bearings and broke the bottle while shaking it. Big mess and waste of paint.

4

2c worth! use a paint stirrer, such as http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad121.htm cost $12.00 I bought a battery powered mini-electric drill for $1.50 in a dime store, bent up a 1/32 brass rod to form a small-ended ? shape, punch a tight fitting hole in the top of a film cannister to act as a movable drip-stop, (between drill & end of stirrer) & stir away… Total cost $2.00 hmm… $2.00 or $12.00 you decide, & buy a filter cartridge spray mask with the change I don’t claim to be an expert, but the combination of new Tamiya paint, Isopropyl thinner well stirred has improved my spray painting a lot! enjoy Jon UK

5

Forget the turpentine, use lacquer thinner – works much better and extends the life of your enamels.

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Ok… stir not shake. [:O]

No turpentine… and will check about mixing Humbrol and Revell paints. [}:)]

Some of the colors on the Marauder call for 25% of X + 75% of Y so I will try to make sure they are the same brand.

I might as well go the whole hog and get Revell black and white to darken and lighten the Revel paint as I already have these basics in Humbrol.

I’m going to start small… as in paint all the pilots and crew 1st. I can imagine the rug monster wanting them for her doll house though if I’m not careful.

7

Hoek;

I feel for you going 100k (60 Miles for the Americans) just to get paint but here in the U.S. we have Great Models or Squadron that ship for Pennies to the Dollar, and of course the LHS. I’ve been known to go about 150 miles (about 210 K’s) to get what I need for this hobby (driving from D.C. to Danville VA to Hobby Lobby) so when I go I get just about all I need and spend about $200.00 at a time at Hobby Lobby just for modeling supplies like paint, glue and other parishables in this hobby, but my question is: have you folks down there have hobby shops like Hobby Lobby, Great Models, or Squadron to have post delivered at very decent rates?

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Most of the major cities in Australia have decent hobby shops but Melbourne is about 400km from here and Canberra the next closest is just under 500km.

Apart from the capital cities… hobby shops in smaller places from my experience are usually doing it hard. Last time I visited the one 100km away they had like 5 photo etch sets… and most of the 1/48 stock had never been replaced so I couldn’t find a single kit I had to get the colors when I was there.

The online sites in Australia are quite poor and the prices are inflated (+10% GST). What is lacking very much on their sites is descriptions and images. One site with paint does not even say whether it’s enamel or acrylic or what size, considering tamiya make acrylic and enamel in various sizes it makes the online buying a joke.

If I could get enamel paint from the US I would get it off Tower Hobbies as there site is great. Easy to use and their specials can be used to halve the shipping.

Australian hobby shops have a much smaller turnover and therefore they charge a lot more… large sites like Tower and Squadron can use their size to get better prices and their turnover ensures a decent price.

As far as kits go… I’ll just save and get 5 at a time from the US. For what I save on a single kit it will bsically pay for the shipping…the rest of the savings are in my pocket or allow me to get more for the same amount. Unless I spend more than A$1,000 they go through customs with no charge or GST.

9

For Kits my major supplier is now EvilBay, but sometimes the kit I’m after everyone else is too, and makes my cheap gain really expensive but I can’t complain I’ve won a 1/48 Revellogram PBY-5 for $15.00 US, since your in a English Commonwealth country does Hannetts (not sure of the spelling) Hobbies ship at reasonalbe prices?

Also I’ve seen Austrailian EvilBay has some great kits for auction have you tried them?

But back to the paint thing have you tried to go to the source like Testors/Floquil, Humbrol or even Revell AG to have a direct purchasing?

10

Have you tried acetone? I’ve used it with enamels for many years and it works great. The paint dries fast with it.

Bill

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Acetone cleans your airbrush really great and also gets those pesky paint stains off the exterior of the airbrush too. but it’ll make the paint cure faster in the bottle while in storage, I found this out and lost about $75.00 US in paint. It’s great to paint with and cures fast but, to store paint thinned with it I’d have to say I wont anymore it’s to costly

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I only try to thin enough to do the project at hand. I rarely store thinned paint. The few times I’ve tried, it has dried out in a month or so.

I clean my airbrush with laquer thinner. I wonder if acetone would be better for that?

Bill

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Where I used to work they used acetone to clean the the spray guns all the time, and our painters out here at Andrews use it to for their guns so it’s safe to say it’ll work wonders for you on clean up

14

I sympathise with you hoeks’. Living in Brisbane city means I don’t have your problem, but there was a time I was considering living somewhere not very close to a LHS. To answer your question 72cuda: no we don’t have many of those sorts of LHS’ here in Oz. Frontline Hobbies in Newcastle or Vic Hobby Centre would probably come close as an actual shop that does mail order. There’s also Snowy Mountains Models which is, I think, an internet shop - they are very good. Failing that Hannants is always there.

15

Hi There,

Heres a few notes for paints I use.

I use standard cellulose thinners thinners for both enamel and Tamiya acrylic when airbrushing as it is reasonably cheap, dries quickly, has a slight self etching quality on some plastics (helps keep the paint on ) and is great for cleaning the air/paint brush as it totally breaks the paint down when used in larger amounts. But trial is needed as it does effect some plastics, I generally try it out on a scrap piece of the kit. BUT DONT USE WITH THE HUMBROL MATT/GLOSSCOAT PAINTS. I havnt yet found a thinner that dries within two weeks and they still remain tacky after this. According to a Humbrol rep I spoke to they were originally fuel proofers for radio control aircraft and car fuels.

If brush painting the best advice I can give is use the manufacturers thinner on acrylics for best results.

White spirit is great for enamels, for both brush and airbrush use.

Ordinary lighter fuel (petrol) is useful when thinning enamels/artists oils as it speeds drying time and matts down the finish. No need to stir just get a dollop of the thick stuff at the bottom of the tin and add a few drops of the fuel. Great for dry brushing because of the thickening/drying action but DO NOT use in your nice new airbrush as it evapourates too quickly.

With regards the mixing of Humbol & Revell enamels, Ive never had any problems with these and have also mixed them with some old Xtracolour and Airfix paints that I have. But I have found that the Revell matt varnish dries with a slight sheen, but as I model Luft WW2 this isnt a problem for me.

I havnt followed all of your posts, but I think I remember reading that you have bought a new airbrush and compressor. Not sure of your location in Oz but a water trap only removes excess moisture in the atmosphere and may not be needed, but a pressure regulater will allow you to alter the amount of paint that your brush will kick out and simplify soft edge camou schemes.

I`m not sure if you have used one before, but when I used to work for Beatties of London, here in the UK, loadsa people used to complain about their first experiences when using a new airbrush and many a model was buggerd due to excess paint, runs,splatters etc so I used to suggest experimenting on a disposable object like a milk bottle etc, anything that had a compound curve so as to get used to following variable surfaces, paint mixes etc.

Now that covers your paint problems, had any thoughts on scale colour, weathering and fadeing? isn`t modelling fun , best wishes Gary

16

So Postage is kind of expensive down there? And driving to a LHS is next to going on vacation (holiday for those from the Commonwealth Countries) . Wow I really feel for you folks and here I’m complaining about going 150 miles (210K) to a fairly good hobby shop to get great prices off kits & paint. Maybe Shaun & Hoek the both of you combined forces and start you own LHS with great shipping costs and draw a great following down there and become a Great Models or Squadron of the Down Under

17

Acetone is a great cleaner—but it is very aggressive to styrene and many other forms of plastic and rubber, even more so than lacquer thinner. It will penetrate latex gloves. It also has a high vapor pressure, meaning that it evaporates very rapidly—and it is highly flammable. It dehydrates skin rapidly, and can be absorbed through the skin. That said, it is probably one of the safer solvents, but it can damage you if you are overexposed.

Because it is aggressive to plastics, it will greatly enhance paint adhesion. However, it is not entirely compatible with the binders in some paints, and may alter coating properties considerably, especially gloss (it will tend to kill gloss in some cases, increase it in others) and often color.

It should never be used with metallic paints unless they are specifically formulated for it, as it will attack the coating on the individual pigment particles, often with spectacular (and undesireable) results.

18

I concour with previous posts re: safety & various ‘fluids’

I worked for a short time in the print industry where ‘proper’ AB wet litho presses were used & spent some time with the printer, gleaning the following:

Make friends with a printer if possible, your local ‘Kwik’ or ‘instant’ printshop may be able to help, as a scource of used litho plates, who may even be glad to get rid of them.

MEK, Methel Ethel Keytone, (liquid glue to modellers), is used as a platten & ink cleaner, and has a Health & Safety Sheet as long as your arm!!
The stuff can cause permanent lung & liver damage, so don’t breathe it & keep off skin. keep window open, and/or extractor that vents to outside, & definitely NO SMOKING!
It will also destroy rubber gloves & seals so don’t even think of using it in an airbrush as a cleaner, it also has a very low flashpoint.

Blanket Wash, an odd substance, used to restore the rubber platten on which litho plates are placed, useful in restoring the rubber rollers of printers.
Feels like Humbrol enamel thinner on skin, will strip skin from said hands!, will eat through tin containers, NOT recommended for hobby use.

I have been getting back into the hobby after a long break, so have been experimenting with a silent compressor, new tamiya paint, and Isopropyl alcohol as thinners. So far so good, but i’ve a lot to learn still…

I had tried a ready-to-use mix of car windscreen fluid as thinner, as recommended on several UK websites, but I wasn’t happy with the finish or adhesion of the Tamiya paint, in that the paint felt chalky & grainy, wouldn’t stick to clean plastic (Italeri LCVP) & was a mess to clean off!

I don’t use Acetone, or cellulose, so can’t comment there, & stopped using enamels as I couldn’t stand the smell!

When spraying use a mask, preferably one with replacable filters, which must be capable of dealing with volatile organics and also dust particulates, plastic & resin etc., and USE IT even when ‘just sanding!’

One of those simple fabric masks just won’t do & I found that a proper industrial mask was more comfortable, didn’t steam up my glasses (important!) and meant I wasn’t sneezing dry paint all over the place.

Jon UK

19

I find it a bit scary that all the chemicals we need are usually so toxic, flammable and basically nasty nasty nasty.

Looking into getting a good fitting, comfortable 2 filter mask with the changable filters. “Borrowed” 1 off dad and it works well but is not a good fitting design and if not careful end up by breathing through small gaps and not through the filter.

With that I will look like Darth Vader…esp after getting a pair of safety glasses. But most would agree better than blowing blue boogers for a week and having paint scraped off your lungs b4 reaching 40.

That ketone crap is wretched stuff… had enough dealing with that when welding PVC pipes together.

Oddly another very dangerous on is super glue and the like. They contain cyanide and as such can kill if you are silly with it. Saw a report in a paper years ago where a man smeared his wife and her “boyfriend” with it when he caught her cheating and they both ended up dying because of the cyanide being absorbed into their body.

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“Oddly another very dangerous on is super glue and the like. They contain cyanide and as such can kill if you are silly with it. Saw a report in a paper years ago where a man smeared his wife and her “boyfriend” with it when he caught her cheating and they both ended up dying because of the cyanide being absorbed into their body.”

That turns out not to be the case. This is still a common misconception, fueled—as too often is the case—by media disinformation, hype and hysteria.

As anyone who is familiar with my numerous posts on paint and chemicals probably knows, I am the last person who will tell you to treat any chemical with casual disregard. However, you cannot get cyanide poisoning from cyanoacrylate glues (“superglues”). They were first developed as surgical adhesives. They do not give off cyanide, nor do they decompose to release cyanide. They will bond skin and flesh, very well and very quickly. Some people find their vapors irritating.

Their name is derived from the fact that the acrylic polymer contains what is called in organic chemistry a cyanide group—CN—carbon triple bonded to nitrogen. The following is a quote from Wikipedia (not the best source, but the quickest for me to get at.)

“Cyanide” is a staple of crime fiction and publicly regarded as meaning deadly poison. Many cyanide-containing compounds are indeed highly toxic, but many are not.

The most dangerous cyanides are hydrogen cyanide (HCN) and salts derived from it, such as potassium cyanide (KCN) and sodium cyanide (NaCN), but including others. Also some compounds readily release HCN or the cyanide ion, such as trimethylsilyl cyanide upon contact with water and cyanoacrylates upon pyrolysis. (pyrolysis=burning)

Many thousands of organic compounds contain the CN group. These compounds are called nitriles. Generally, nitriles do not display the toxicity of HCN, NaCN, and KCN. In fact, the nitrile functional group is an integral component of numerous pharmaceutical drugs including cimetidine (Tagamet), verapamil (Isoptin), and citalopram (celexa). The reason for their diminished toxicity is that nitriles do not release the CN- ion, which permanently binds to and inhibits cytochrome c oxidase, the specific basis of the lethality of cyanide.

Nitrile gloves also contain the CN group as part of their polymeric structure.