Ill add my 2 cents to this. I did some research on this a while ago because I was having massive issues with the Vallejo model air paints I had bought. I picked up about $100 worth of them at once never having used them. Got tip dry like mad and clogging.
What I found was using 10 drops paint, 3 drops thinner, 3 drops flow improver and 1 drop retarder medium. I only use the retarder if I am doing some really fine detail work at low paing flow. Otherwise I just omit it. I have had really good success with this mix.
Of course, all the thinners and whatnot are Vallejo brand.
Not a fan of any acrylics but I have some Vallejo Air that sprays ok but not as fantastic as my MM enamels. I can get super tight thin lines with enamels and lacquer but not with acrylics like Vallejo even when using their proprietary thinner and flow improver. I have found better ab control with Mission Models acrylics over Vallejo.
I agree with Greg - Model Air + a drop or two of thinner = no problems. I use my own “home brew” thinner, which is IPA & water based and has a small amount each of flow improver and retarder in it, so those features are built-in to an extent. If I find I need more of either or both of them (so far I haven’t with Model Air) I can always add them. I’ve only sprayed Cold White from the Model Color range so, apart from agreeing that it took more thinning, I don’t have much experience of those ones.
By and large I’m very happy with the Vallejo paints I’ve used, but I will never again buy their primers (different story!)
I am somewhat curious as to what your issue with Vallejo primer is. I have been using it for a while now and not had any problems. Can you elaborate for me? What are you using instead?
I almost bought a bottle of Vallejo primer a couple of different times to find out the exact mystery everyone has with it. But I found the answer online, partly from Vallejo info and partly from reviewers and then assessing how people use it… And I’ll just stick with my Synylrez.
Stynylrez is a sandable primer sealer. So it primes, it seals and can be sanded, all of which I find to be true. Within certainly a couple of hours you can recoat over it but by natural events of my building it will most often be over night. But with a little heat applied I have painted over it in less than 30 minutes.
Vallejo is not touted to be a sandable primer and Vallejo’s own instructions say to give the primer 24 hourse dry time. Not sure if it seals. I think people having trouble with Vallejo primer rush the operation and may also be expecting to sand it. I have enough faith in Vallejo to produce a product that works if people abide by the guidelines in using it. So if I bought that primer I’d use it as instructed and anticipate it would work fine. But I think stynylrez is a cut above in satisfying my usage, so why would I do that ?
It is not sandable, adherence is awful, and pulls up easily with masking tape. There has to be a reason folks use it, but it is so far lost on me. I’ve wondered if it simply that it is popular with figure painters? It self-levels like a dream, lays down an awesome finish, and retains surface detail as good as any primer I’ve used.
My go-to for the past couple of years has been Stynylrez. Tamiya Surface Primer and Mr Surfacer are a couple of my old favorite solvent-based primers.
I’ve done a few informal tests with Vallejo, Mission and Stynylrez primers. Their scratch resistance is in the order listed, but I can’t say I had any lifting or peeling issues. Stynylrez is absolutely crazy good, but a little tougher to clean out of the airbrush. For good performance and easy clean up, I’ve settled on Mission primer under any acrylic paint.
Hi, Deeve - I find that, as long as you don’t want to do anything other than apply paint on top of it, it’s fine. I used it on a couple of Tamiya 1/35 tanks without needing to do anything else, and it worked beautifully - as Greg says, it applies well, and doesn’t hide or soften surface detail. That’s why I bought a couple more bottles of different shades.
Then I found that, even after leaving it in a warm, dry room for several days, or a week, if I needed to do any repairs - filling & sanding - it peeled off the plastic & left a slight but visible “step” around the edge of the exposed area. I eventually found that VERY gentle wet sanding can feather this so the job can be finished (thanks to fellow members who advised me on this at the time). I have had the same thing happen when removing masking tape, even when this was “de-tacked” before being applied.
So I now use it only where I know I won’t need to sand or mask it e.g. the IDF Sand Grey primer is currently doing duty as a faded wood colour on the deck of a vehicle-launched bridge, other details on those parts are being carefully hand-painted around and over it.
Before I bought a dedicated model primer, I used ordinary household grey primer from a rattle can - that’s what I’ve gone back to. Yes. it’s a bit smelly, but it covers well, adheres well, doesn’t need an airbrushing session, and it’s cheap. (Edit: and you can sand it and mask it as well - no problem.) If necessary I rub it down with micro-mesh before painting on top, but that’s mainly just for aircraft - tanks have a rougher texture, so the primer doesn’t hurt at all. Hope this answers your question[:)]
I will have to look for these other Primers. Only ones Ive ever used is Tamiya in a rattle can (Hate using it due to lack of control of flow), Model Master Acrylic and the Vallejo. I have noticed the Vallejo does scratch extremely easily, but I find that with everything Vallejo. [:(] I am somewhat concerned using Tamiya under Vallejo as I have had some cracking of Vallejo paints going overtop standard Tamiya colours.
Personal experience is that I dont find I have the paint come up when masking. I am in the process of doing a Tamiya DO-335 and literally just peeled off all the masking and had none of the paint come up with the tape. I did however have some chips and scratches in the primer [8o|]
You can decant Tamiya primer into a 4 ounce mason jar and airbrush it. It works like a dream. I thin mine with MEK to give it even more bite on the plastic. Can’t comment on the cracking problem with Vallejo paint over Tamiya primer, as I stopped using Vallejo paint a few years ago. Not into having to use a chemistry set to make the stuff do what its supposed to do, and there are other less-troublesome alternatives. Also didn’t like the ridiculously long cure times and fragile finish they produce. [2cnts]
Totally didn’t even think to decant it. I will do that next time. Do you think adding some solvent glue to it will have the same effect as pure MEK?
When I had the Vallejo paint crack, I did insignia white overtop a glossy gray tamiya. The paint split and cracked in spots. Might have been from putting it in too thick as it was white and I was trying to cover up some defects. Likely my screw up.
Not sure how the Tamiya primer would react with solvent glue. I think most solvent glues for models are primarily Toluene, and I’m not sure of the compatibility. What I have tried other than MEK was isopropyl alcohol, since that’s what I use to thin other Tamiya paints. Isopropyl alcohol and Tamiya primer definitely don’t get along, the primer is pretty much instantly turned into something that resembles cottage cheese. MEK is reliable and fairly cheap in comparison to other things. Just have lots of ventilation and don’t get it on your skin. Latex gloves are pretty much impervious to it, so they offer good protection. Vinyl gloves, on the other hand, will melt instantly.
Painting a second color over the top of any gloss paint is going to be inviting adhesion and cracking issues, especially if it goes on too thick.
For decanting, I usually get a box of 4 ounce mason jars with lids from somewhere like Amazon. I take one of the lids and drill a big enough hole in the center of it for a 1/4" ID grommet. That lid I use as my decanting lid. Then I take the nozzle off the Tamiya primer can and attach a bendable party straw over the nozzle using epoxy and let that cure overnight. After that, I take the can and shake it for a couple of minutes to get everything in it mixed and ready to spray. Then its just a matter of putting the nozzle/straw assembly back on the can, screwing the lid with the grommet onto one of the mason jars, pushing the straw into the grommet, and spraying all of the paint through the straw into the jar. Don’t screw the cap on tightly when doing this, so the propellant can vent. After that, leave the cap loose to allow the propellant to continue to come out of solution. At about 2 hours, carefully stir the paint by hand (no motorized mixers) a little bit at a time…it will boil quickly as the propellant gas continues to come out, so you have to occasionally stop stirring to keep it from boiling over. When it no longer boils when stirred, you can screw the lid on tight and you’ve got lots of airbrushable Tamiya primer that will be good for weeks or even months of primering model parts.
When airbrushing it, I find it best to put a little bit of the primer into a Dixie paper bathroom cup, and then thin/mix it with MEK. You’ll have to stir the primer in the mason jar each time because there is a thick, sticky sludge that settles to the bottom. That sludge is normal though, so don’t worry that your primer is drying out. You just have to stir it each time. I usually use a wooden skewer for stirring it since its too thick for a motorized stirrer.
I have found the key to airbrusshing vallojo paints, and it is simply do not thin modelcolor paint with airbrush thinner use only flow improver give it a try Ithink you will be happy with the result
Simple sounds good to me also,but for me,and just me,it’s not simple for me to try to mix my own colors.If Tamiya has what I need great,otherwise I look elsewhere for something easy.Vallejo has a great color range and it has become simple for me,Mission Model paints are simple for me,and AK Real paint line I have found them to be the same as Tamiya only more colors,even the same jar,thinned with LT,so their simple and basic for me.
Vallejo Model Air paint does not get thinned - it goes straight into the airbrush. If you have a large area to paint and don’t want it to dry super fast and clog up your tip add some Flow Improver. .5mm needle at about 35psi
That is generally true. Using an .5 needle is ok as you posted but try using an .2 one and unthinned. It will kinda of work but it will skip and spit unless it’s thinned and still I don’t get the same performance as an enamel that I can thin and use my Sotar brush and spray at 10-12 psi all day without skipping or tip dry.