STEVE; I believe before the October incident with the Oklahoma the Arizona was still Navy Dark Gray (5-D), correct?
If I’m reading of the above references correctly, the Arizona did not get the Sea Blue (5S) hull and verticle treatment and Haze Gray (5-H) towers until much later, most likely in November 41, right?
If that is true, then the ship would have little or no discoloration, rust, or wear prior to the attack; it would’ve been a days old new paint job, right?
Help me out, as I really want to get the colors correct for the period I am building…
Thanks you all for your historical expertise, I appreciate everyone’s comments
Ben, you are correct. She was repainted and would have been in Bristal Fashion just after her stay in the body shop. There likely would have been very little if any rust around the overflows. The fighting tops would have been nearly white the the turet tops sparkly red and clean. The decks would probably have just been honed as well.
While waiting for my paints and books, I have been looking at the kit and PE instructions. Right away it is clear that they do not match each others sequence of build at all. This means I have to carefully study the PE instructions and integrate them into the modeling sequence.
One of the first (PE) instruction steps is to work on the front of the main deck. While the kit has a half relief of the molded in anchor chain, the PE instructions require it to be removed. In the same step there is a call out to drill and shape holes for the hawse pipes and anchors.
After test fitting the wood deck I see that the chain guides (?) were no longer in the proper relief. My solution was to make another layer with very thin sheet plastic. The holes you see will have the wood deck and then PE around them. In this picture you can see the crude winches. I have not decided if I am going to replace, modify, or leave them. Perhaps a base coat, then wash, and highlight would make them appear more detailed (?). You can also see the kits raised relief for the deck planking. If you look close there are many little circles in the kit decking as well (?).
Next I’ve jumped to the main guns as it is the next step in the PE instructions. After some research I found that the USS Arizona’s main guns could not elevate individually, some of the sister ships made later in production could, but the gun battery in the Arizona’s main guns operated together. The kit barrels do not measure up to ships drawings as they are short and fat. The replacement metal barrels appear to solve the problem. Another funky thing about the kit guns is the instructions tell you to leave them unglued so they can operate independently.
My solution is to make my own pivot pin and cradle for the barrels. I used basic brass rod and grooved plastic.
Once I got everything measured out to fit inside the turret I drilled the pilot holes for fittment of the rear of the new barrels. Next I carefully glued the barrels to the plastic to ensure they were all at the same elevation and spread and then test fitted them again. Finally I added the brass pivot to the plastic And then a final test fit into the main gun.
Here are the metal turned replacement barrels in the turrets
Yes, this is little baby steps. Part of my problem is I am waiting for the books and paints. Another issues is I am being very careful not to remove something I shouldn’t or build out of sequence.
Next I think I will be working on the hull… till then.
I believe the chain guides are “races”, but GM or others may know for sure.
I hadn’t realized that kit had so many issues. I know it is just an upscale modle of the old Revell kit but I had though they had fixed a few items. Now I’m sure I’m going to turn it into what she looked like a month or so after the attack. I can still use the wood deck, guns and PE for that as well.
I am looking at ships photos between the 1936 updates and the 1941 final update. In the process I see photos of the main guns with blast bags around thier base and attached to the turret, and then I see some of the same guns without them during the near same timeframe. Does anyone know this mystery?
I also see the 5" guns at the bottom of the superstructure both closed and open, once again during the same timeline. My guess is that it is a type of weather shield to protect the gun stations from the corrosive salt water when not in use (?). Much the same reason for the barrel plugs when not in use. Is this correct?
I found another issue when comparing the Banner kit to the after-market wood deck and the Eduard PE updates. I guess this is not a surprise that while the deck works well with the kit (since its made for it), it does not work well with the Eduard PE. The photo below shows how well the wood deck conforms around the kits gun emplacements. The problem is that they are way too thick in scale. When I removed a couple emplacements to add the PE it leaves rather larger gaps between the wood and the PE.
I am starting to think I will leave the kit gun armor on and try some paint tricks to make it appear thinner. In the photo you can also see where I removed the bogus boat stays from the deck. They are going to be replaced with PE rigs and positioned correctly. I am already looking at filling those simple rectangles with scrap pieces of the wood decking.
I still have to remove the plastic steps so I can add the ones made from PE. I will have to cut some of the scrap to cover the whole that will be there once the plastic steps are removed. I’m sure this is just the beginning of many little things I will find when trying to add stuff from 5 manufacturers.
Perhaps if I cut down the kit emplacements till they are flush with the wood deck, I can then add the PE on top of the remaining plastic? My concern is if I do this, will it make the emplacement armor sit too tall for the guns? What do you think, should I take the remaining gun emplacement armor off and replace it with the PE or leave it?
Looking forward to one of my next steps, the blast bags for the main guns. Has anyone here used tissue with white glue or blue tack to make blast bags?
Ben, as far as the blast bags, I have used tissue, milli-put, and acrylic filler like Perfect Plastic Putty. The most unrealistic, to me, was the tissue. The Milli-put and PPP seemed to work well.
As far as the gun emplacement blast shields, I’m not sure. I usualy raze the offending part down to the plastic deck and then add the PE. My concern is if you go just to the wood and it’s too high, then you’ll have a time getting it correct. the wood venere is usually so thin that I’m not sure it will make much of a diffrence though. If its too low you can always remove the PE and fill, then re-attach. [*-)]
There’s just no thing as a free lunch anymore. I see the problem with the splinter shields.
Grinding them down to be flush with the deck might be your best bet. Before you do that though, check to see whether the PE ones are the same shape. The Eduard folks may have said; well the kit ones are wrong and since the modeler is taking them off, we’ll shape them correctly.
For the gun bloomers, blast bags, whatever (IMO they were primarily weather seals), I like to use straignt white glue and build up a number of layers. Tissue is way too fiddly.
Steve: Thanks for the tips concerning the plastic putty or milliput. I will use one of them, white glue, or blue tack, as I believe all can be painted.
Gamera: Thanks brother for your kind words, I just started and there is still much to do.
GMorrison: I appreciate your insight. I did indeed see what you said concerning the incorrect plastic shields versus the more accurate shapes of the PE splinter shields. While the PE is close, it is indeed different in numerous areas (more accurate). With that in mind, I removed the remaining splinter shields for several reasons:
simply because they are grossly out of scale.
since I already removed the front two splinter tubs and replaced them with PE it would look funny to keep the others.
the PE is much more accurate in shape, length, and thickness.
and the only two places I see this as an issue are the splinter shields and the steps on the wood decks. Everything else on the wood deck appears just fine.
And now my delemma; When going with the wood and PE there will be some gaps. That will require me to correct them as best as possible with glue and paint? With the spare scrap I have from the wood deck punch outs, perhaps I could use it to fill the more prominent or visual spaces on the deck to minimise any disparity of grain and color. If I do it right, most of the gaps will be behind the splinter shields and not in plain sight. Perhaps after the fill and paint inside the splinter shields along with the guns being installed you will not really see it (?).
I believe that is the route I will take, wish me luck… photos soon.
Well Steve… the problem is that the PE does not match the plastic that was removed in shape, bend points, length, etc. I am totally disgusted right now and have to think about it some more; here is what I have to work with:
I think there is a company that makes a wood deck without the cut-outs for the stairs and splinter shields, etc., basically a solid wood deck. The problem is the deck once purchased and delivered costs more than the model kit! (around $60.00). [:@]
So I thought I would remove the PE and scribe the deck then paint it, but it would never match the wooden main deck. [+o(]
To add insult to injury, the splinter shields have numerous reinforcement ribs that I had to remove to get them to fit this flush with the wood edge. They will have to be added individually after the deck is installed (around 40 of them). [:'(]
Oh and I also trimmed the wood to fit the PE as well in a couple spots so… [6]
Deep in my gut, I think I will have to buy the premium deck to make this work for the standard I am going for. [:'(]
Unless… I remove the PE and cut plastic strip for the splinter shields to fit the openings exactly. That may be one saving attempt and still be able to use the wood deck.
Time to step back for a while and think about this… cry, spit, kick, have a tantrum, etc. then gather myself and proceed forward.
One thing that doesn’t get modeled often is that these gun positions are very busy places. Here’s BB-40 USS New Mexico.
Put together one of the 5" guns with its platform and see how much of the deck inside the shield but forward of the gun is actually visible. If you can get the PE to be at the front of the slot in the deck, it may be OK.
GMorrison: While you are correct about the cluttered gun batterys, I just cannot be happy with my $15.00 wood deal from overseas that is not fitting anything anymore. Regardless if I use the PE or thicker plastic, it will not be the build quality that I would be satisfied with. For all the money I already have wrapped up in this kit so far, I should not be concerned over a $60.00 wood deck if it is the quality the reviews say it is.
Here is a photo of the one I have now. You can see the natural wood grain that is not in scale going the length of the deck. And you can see that the pre-cut punch outs for the kit splinter shields are HUGE. I do not think that I want to compromise my build to that extent.
Here is a photo of the “other” premium deck by a company called believe it or not “Scaledecks”. It is an American company and the feedback I have seen on-line indicates they make a really nice product. You can see the planks are individually colored. It also has a micro felt back and not a press and stick one. This will allow me to move it around to get it where I want it before I let it dry. Plus it will eliminate all of my splinter shield gaps, as well as holes made by the stair and boat cut-outs. It will also help me on the clean removal of the gun bays on the lower rear deck. They are suppose to be elivated. This new product will make that a clean process too.
This is the way I am moving forward. I think it will bring the whole build to another level, provided I don’t booger it up in some other way. Wish me luck…(again).
If made to fit around the thick kit splinter shields, you’ll probably still have a gap since the PE is going to be thinner. Hopefully not as bad and can hide somewhat on the inside.
goldhammer: no, there is no punch outs for the kit shields, it is solid, like the one in the right of the picture. This means there will be no gaps at all. The PE guns, and superstructure will simply lay on top of the solid deck. I hope to have it in my hands in a week or less.
