Seem to spend as much time tearing airbrush apart as painting. Me? Or Equipment?

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
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Mods, feel free to move to airbrush forum if necesarry, but i thought i’d get more views and help here.

First, I am a newbie to airbrushing, but have done ok “winging it”. I recently finished 1:48 pby Catalina with similar results. I have sprayed model Master Enamels (without too many issues) but everytime I spray acrylics or acrylic matte clearcoats, I have had issues about 50% of the time. My equipment consists of a brand new (used 3 times now) Paasche Talon, and a Paasche DR3000 compressor with tank, water seperator, regulator. The issue I seem to be having, is at some point the brush seems to clog or partially clog, then paint somehow gets into the body of the airbrush, and gets into the air valve (with the little ball on top the trigger pushes on) and ends up sticking wide open. I had this issue with my FIRST Talon, and when I tried to disassemble it, the allen screw in the bottom of the air valve just stripped out, so I was dead in the water. Being impatient, I bought a second Talon from the LHS, and kept the first one for parts. I alwayse clean my equipment well before putting away, (or maybe I am forced too, when it screws up and I have to completely disassemble it?) and I am not sure If I am screwing something up, or I am having equipment issues? Once that little valve sticks, you are screwed. You must disassemble the air valve from the main body, and take the air valve, spring, plunger, etc apart and clan them. Even then, it still sticks, even though it appears clean. I tried putting a couple drops of oil down there last time I used the brush, and it seemed to fix the probelm, at least until I used it again, then the same issue. I tightened the internal “packing nut” a little bit last time after I had an issue, and maybe 1/8 or 1/4 turn more this time after I had the same issue AGAIN. I dont want to bad mouth Paasche, as I cannopt confirm it is the equipment, and when I mentioned to customer service with the prior brush, they said to send it in and they would give me a new one. The only thing I think may be a contributing factor, is I have not been STRAINING the paint. THis time the paint was AK interactive “german war colors”. I had not one issue spraying the dunkelgelb as my base coat last weekend, but when I tried to spray the “olivegrun option 2” today, thats when I had issues, towards the end of my first attempt at free-hand camo. I will admit, that no matter how much shaking or stirring, that olivegrun did NOT want to mix very well. What is my best method for strainin the paint? Automotive body paint strainers (kind of big), pantyhose or somnething? An old t-shirt or sock? I seem to do well and get nice results when the brush is spraying, but I have been getting my butt kicked by it as much as it has worked for me… ANY TIPS? IDEAS>? I hear stories of people using their airbrush, and simply spraying through some thinner and putting it away until next time. Is this a fairy tale? Different kind of brush? I am about 75% done with 3 different projects, but I am tired of getting my ass kicked by this airbrush…

Thanks!

Rudy

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Ahhh, Rudy, welcome to the wonderful world of airbrushing. I’m not familiar with your model so I can’t speak to that. Acrylics however seem to always give me a problem. I have of late purchased the separate manufactures thinners and use that to thin their particular brand of paint, which seems to help. I always clean the AB between coats with Lacquer thinner and give it a good cleaning with lacquer thinner after I’m done. Sometimes I take the whole thing apart and let the pieces soak for a while. I dread the painting process because it takes as long to clean it as it does to set everything up a spray, but I can’t beat the results. I had an external mix Paasche years ago which was easier to clean but harder to get different volumes of paint.
I’m sure others can help you out better than I.

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No fairy tale, I spray lacquer thinner all the time when using enamels and don’t have to break down the air brush every time I use it. I do find that acrylics tend to clog the tip even after sprayin LT so I have to break it down and remove any residue.

If paint is leaking back into the body then the seal is bad as nothing should be getting back there. Same thing hapenned with my Badger Velocity. I sent it back to Badger and the tech ended up sending me a replacement one.

Have you soaked the body in lacquer thinner? This is something you should never do as the internal seals may have gotten damaged.

As far as spraying acrylics, I avoid it cause I end up with a lot of clogging and not having the same control i get when using enamels. Some guys swear by acrylics but i swear at them, sorry but that is just me. Tamiya acrylics do seem to behave much better than other acrylics when cycled thru an AB.

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I’m a noob and am still trying to use acylics most of the time. I had read (from several folks) that lacquer thinner was the only way to go. Simple, easy, works on anything. So I tried it the other day after spraying some white primer and it turned to rubbery globs! So now I’m back to using UMP cleaner.

I also run into the tip drying cloggingf issue as well. Very frustrating not to be able to just paint!

I want to learn to eliminate these painting/cleaning issues because right now (and for about 2 years) I almost “hate” painting since I havent seemed to solve all the airbrushing and cleaning problems.

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Hokey

Which primer did you use, Vallejo? if so I have read that its not compatible with Tamiya’s thinner, or solvent types. I haven’t sprayed Vallejo so i have no idea if LT is compatible with it.

I have thinned Tamiya and MM acrylics with LT without any problems and used LT to clean the AB after using them.

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Rudy - If you have not as yet, have a good look at “Don’s Airbrush Website,” priceless detailed info about everything related to airbrushing. I highly recommend it

1) If paint is indeed getting back through the needle bearing, into the AB body and air valve, something is surely wrong. Even if clogging is occuring in the forward bits, causing back pressure, it seems to me the bearing should be sufficient to prevent reverse paint flow past that point. Check to see that you’re sufficiently tightening the forward bits at reassembly. I have read that insufficient tightening of forward parts can cause “bubbling in the cup,” which indicates reverse air flow, but be watchful about tightening parts, even though they do require sufficient torque to properly seal, they are small and can be stripped.

2) Lacquer thinner is my preferred cleaner. I even sometimes use it as a reducer for Tamiya acrylics, although I generally use the manufacturers thinner for all paints.

3) After using the AB, I spray 2 or 3 loads of lacquer thinner through it, at about 25 psi. I always dis-assemble all parts forward of the bearing for thorough cleaning, then dry and re-assemble. I use pretty much exclusively Badger equipment, their proprietary AB lube called “Regdab” works very well for me, I use it for all threaded components.

4) Don’t be discouraged by initial problems, patience pays off big time as you go through this learning curve. I’ve been airbrushing for upwards of fifty years, still learn new things as I go. Once you get it dialed in, (the AB and you,) you’ll find you can go pick up the AB, spray away and really enjoy the process, every time.

Please check back in as you progress, we’d all like to know the outcome of your efforts. Best of luck.

Patrick

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Thanks everyone!! I will keep you posted as to the results. I am really starting to get annoyed, as I end up spending even more time screwing with and tearing apart the airbrush to try and “fix it” than painting or even modeling. To cover the questions asked:

I ALWAYS use the same brand of thinner as the paint, especially with acrylic products.

It does seem quite odd paint is getting back into the AB body and screwing things up. This is the SECOND airbrush of same make and model with same exact issue. I have tightened the packing nut about 1/8" to 1/4" turn more to see if this fixes the issue.

The tip-drying I expect, and is easily fixed with a quick wiping of the needle with a rag or piece of paper towel.

I also hate painting (with airbrush anyhow) and wait until I have all sorts of things that need to be painted and have a marathon. I painted a 1:32 Huey (MM enamels, no issues) and then a 1:35 Panzer V in a marathon session 2 weeks ago. the 1:48 B-29 will be a garage project with the big spray can this weekend.

I will double-check tightness of nozzle and such. After the AB broke the first time(first one) when I got the new parts, I hand threaded the nozzel in, put the little wrench on it, and just barely started to apply pressure; It sheared the nozzle off, with the threads stuck in the body. That is why I just bought a second one. I am losing patience with this design, however.

I will research some AB lube.

Thanks all!

Rudy

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Good lord, NO! DOn’t use lacquer thinner with anything but lacquers! The ONE EXCEPTION is Tamiya acrylics, which are actually a hybrid, and can be thinned with either their own thinner or lacquer thinner. They wash up with water.

If your paint is drying on the tip, you have either one of two (or both) problems: inadequate air pressure, or more likely, too-thick paint.

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I would invest in the time-tested and true design of a Badger 150. I’ve been using one since 1985.

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I second the Badger 150. I bought mine in 1978 and I still use it. After all this time I sent it to Badger for a well deserved tune up after 37 years of use.

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Hi Rudy :

First off , let me preface this with the statement that I do NOT use Acrylics ! I can’t stand the crap !

Now that said , my airbrush , " Old Faithful " has been in use since 1989 . It was , at the time Badger’s top of the line with the bottle on the bottom and all the goodies available then .It has painted many Real Volkswagen " Bugs " and many , many vans . That and my models too !

It has always taken longer to clean it than painting where models were concerned .I use a Paasche now for most stuff , But , still , for the kick butt finishes I use the Badger.

Best 60.00 bucks I ever spent . Oh , don’t forget to test the cleaned unit with water or thinner Before painting .You may be having some re-assembly seal issues ! T.B.

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This is not right for sure and I can’t imagine how frustrated you must be, Rudy.

I do hope you get it sorted out soon. Cleaning an airbrush is part of the process (and I’ve come to enjoy it actually), but it should be nothing like what you describe, just as everyone else is suggesting.

And I have an opposing opinion. Though I don’t mind spraying solvent based stuff and actually prefer it under some circumstances, I’d rather spray acrylics for the easy cleanup. It’s just a matter of what one is used to and comfortable with. Neither opinion is ‘right’, I’m sure. [:)]

Edit: have you by any chance run a pipe cleaner through the body to clean the ID? I’ve ruined bearings or seals or whatever they’re called doing this, causing paint backup into the body.

Either that or something is loose or a seal or o ring is bad, as others have mentioned?

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All of the above info is spot-on for those problems stated.

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. A couple of years ago, I won an Iwata Revolution Cr in a raffle at a contest. I talked to quite a few guys at the show who used Vallejo Acrylics and decided to try them. Have been using them ever since and haven’t had any problems with the AB. Even though Vallejo Air is AB ready, I always add a drop or two of distilled water into the cup and mix it up. When finished spraying that color, I spray about a 1/4 of the cup filled with Windex through the AB. I follow that with the same amount of distilled water and then add the next color to the cup. Repeat the process after each color and when finished for the day I put 1/4 of the cup filled with Vallejo AB cleaner followed by the same amount of Windex and then the same amount of Distilled water. I’m usually spraying at 15 to 20lbs. and the AB has never failed me (should I say YET?[;)]). Total cleanup time between colors is about 2 to 3 minutes and about 3 to 4 when finished for the day.

Hope that this helps.

Jim [cptn]

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I really like my Badger. I had a lot of the same problems as you, Rudy, with my Paasche. (Waiting for Mike to tell me I don’t know what I’m doing…). My major complaint was that disassembly and reassembly involved readjustment of the needle “headspace”.

No such problems with the Badger, in fact I’m well on my way to simply “wearing” mine out.

Two things I do in addition to all of the above.

I run thinner alone that’s compatible with the paint I am going to use; BEFORE painting. That seems to loosen things up. It also has the advantage that if the brush has decided it doesn’t want to get out of bed yet and do some work, tear down and cleaning of whatever got stuck in there is not a messy job or a waste of paint.

Second, when I clean the brush after using it, I always back charge the brush into the cup using cleaner, i.e. block the tip and make it bubble back in. That seems to help.

I’m not quite as exclusive as Karl on the use of LT, but I’d agree in general. As you said Rudy, having started this hobby after reading a lot of ideas about how this solvent works with that paint, etc., I’ve had the most success going with the maunfacturers thinner, or in the case of Testors enamel; the usual hardware store paint thinner.

At a minimum after every session, I pull the needle and wipe it off, and run solvent through the brush without the needle in it.

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I also prefer the Badger for its ruggedness and reliability. I now have to replace my 200 (I am temporarily using my 150, whereas I ordinarily reserve the 150 for camouflage, tinting coats, and stuff where I need a super thin overcoat).

But then,the 200 is 45 years old. The valve in the body that controls the air is sticking badly and no cleaning seems to fix it. Since there have been major changes to the body of the 200 in the intervening years of its sale I am not fully confident a new body would work as well in my antique model as in a new one. Previously the only thing I ever replaced were the teflon head seal washers. The needle is even the original.

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Don, send that 200 back to Badger; they’ll tune it up basically free-of-charge; you only pay pennies for the parts. I just got my 150 tuned up for basically 10 bucks. It came back brand new… If it didn’t have the wear on the handle, I’d have sworn that they sent me a brand new one. Badger’s customer service is top-notch!!! [Y]

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I’ll second that! When I upgraded (yeah right, as in embraced reality) from my Aztek to a Badger, the fittings didn’t mate with my Testors compressor. I sent them an email with the compressor model no. and they sent me an adapter fitting free.

So my next Badger is a what?

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Thank you everyone for the tips, info and opinions. It baffles me to hear of people using the SAME NEEDLE 30-45 years later!!! I am going to give my Paasche a couple more tries, but If I have anymore issues< I am going to send it back, and get a badger. I might just get a badger anyways! All the craft and hobby stores seem to carry them (Michaels, Jo-ann fabrics, etc) and their replacement parts. Its kind of nice if you need a part on the weekend.

Thanks again!!!

Rudy

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I use Acryllics exclusively in my airbrush (Iwata) and never have problems, even though my compressor is a bit too weak (Iwata Ninja); I only get a max 15 lbs or so of pressure out of it. I do obsessively clean my airbrush though, and I run a little bit of straight acryllic thinner through it before I pour the paint (it seems to make cleaning easier)

Do you oil your needle? If that isn’t the problem, the airbrush itself may be defective.