Hello All,
Have several questions pertaining to panthers and after market products.
Could a Panther D have been painted in either gray or the 3 tone scheme?
If you used a 3 tone scheme, would zimmerit have been applied?
Would all Panther A’s have had zimmerit?
The following questions concern DML Panther D’s and A’s as well as Tamiya’s Jagdpanther.
What would you suggest ( photo etched or resin ) to use as an after market zimmerit for these kits?
What is the approximate cost for AM zimmerit kits?
What is the best method of applying the zimmerit sheets?
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
If you have any additional information beyond my questions to add, please feel free to add anything you feel would help me out.
Please, don’t suggest hand applied zimmerit [:O], I have a severe case of zimm-a-phobia [:I] [BH]
Joe[:-^]
Here is my shot. The early d’s had no zimm but were in a three tone scheme. The prototype was prbabally in a gray scheme. Later D’s, with a couplas, had zimmerit, but those aren’t the ones used in kursk (the debut of the panther). All of the a’s except the first 5 had zimmerit. they used various designs depending on make, factory, and time period. Regarding the kits: I am currently building DML’s late A and have atak’s zimmerit. That ran for about $25. Cavalier makes cheaper sets ($20.00)but makes only one set for DML: the early A tiled pattern. For applying the stuff, gently cut out the zimm. Then be 100% sure that you will use it because you need to ruff up the surface for better adhesion. You can use 5min two part epoxy, or thick super glue. Epoxy is slightly better but super glue is sufficient
No, It has been pretty much proven that no “Combat” Panthers were ever painted Panzer Gray…
Yes, The base color of Dark Yellow, with RedBrown and Olive Green was used along with Dark Yellow and just the Brown or Green…
It would depend on whether you were modelling a “Early” or “Late” AusfD… Early Ausf Ds wouldn’t have zimmerit and most likely only a two-toned scheme mentioned above, with a “Late” Ausf D having zimmerit (most likely field applied) with the three-toned scheme…
Yes, All Panther Ausf A’s had zimmerit (Remember that the first production Panther was the Ausf D, then the Ausf A, then the Ausf G.)…
Panther early ausf. D were either dark yellow, or camo. Several Kursk references available to show this. Even the Prototype is dark yellow ( ref. Osprey Panther variants). I finished mine in 3 tone for a Kursk vehicle.
If it is a Kursk vehicle, apply no zimmerit. Anything after that, I would apply it. Several early D hulls were modified starting in late '43 to take the “A” cast cupola, and zimmed at that time.
Yes. Even “early A’s”
Your zimmerit application is a matter of preference. You can pick up PE zim for less than $20.00 USD.
Here is my A model during zim application with CA glue, be sure to rough up the surfaces before applying:
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help.
Now, some follow up questions, if you don’t mind.
Don’t have any of the kits I’ve asked about, so,
Does DML have more than one Panther D kit?
If so, are they identified as early / late?
Does anyone have a preference for a particular manufacturer and or type ( PE / resin )? Why?
Don’t mean to be such a pain in the “neck?” [:-^], but I do very much value the opinions of the folks here on the board. I know I can benefit greatly from the experiences of those here.
Again many thanks [bow][bow][bow][bow][bow] to any and all who (have or will be willing to) help out.
Joe[:D]
Firstly the DML Ausf D is not totally accurate for Kursk. To make the early (Kursk) version Ausf D you will need to:
Add the second headlight to the front of the vehicle (omitted by Dragon instructions but included as an ‘extra’ on the duplicated sprue D and actually shown in boxtop artwork);
Add front fender extensions if the ‘battle damaged’ look is not being modelled (a must to add for the Kursk vehicles as this was their first deployment);
Fabricate the early model heat deflector plates for the rear stowage boxes (the later model version are included in the kit as an extra, but are noted as ‘unused’ in the instructions. The kit ones are convex, whereas the D’s were actually concave)
Carve off the rain guard over the gunners sights on the mantlet;
Remove the gun elevation limiter from the turret roof behind the gun mantlet;
Remove and fill the key hole on the commanders cupola hatch and reposition the hatch so the hinge is at 2 o’clock not 3 o’clock as per the kit (this is easy if the hatch is to be closed, but further work will be required if it is to be opened).
Fill the keyhole in the rear escape/loading hatch; and
Replace the radiator fan inlet covers on the rear hull with the correct asymmetrical style available from ‘Mig Productions’. The symmetrical round style in the kit are a legacy of the DML Ausf A mould provided in the kit and totally wrong.
Do not fit mesh screens to the intakes.
There is some controversy over what makes a late D, but now it is a rule of thumb that anything with the cast cupola was an A, so early A’s include the ones built on hulls with the letter box MG Mount - many such pics are noted incorrectly as Late D’s in books, etc.
To make an Early A from the DML Ausf D kit you need to:
Leave off the smoke discharger units provided in the kit, cut of the cable tube on the turret roof and fill the locating holes for the discharger brackets;
Fill the keyhole in the rear loading /escape hatch;
Fill the location hole for the communication port below the commanders cupola;
Add the commanders direct sight to the turret roof;
Use the late version Drive sprocket centres and MG port on the front hull;
Use the late model jack block mount;
Reposition the jack on the rear hull so that the jack handle is now the facing upward (manufacture of the late model longer jack mounts will also be necessary)
Attach the heat deflectors (parts J3) to the inside of the rear stowage boxes
Add the cast cupola and
Apply zimmerite.
Adding the front fender extensions is optional.
All surviving Ausf D’s after the loss of 200 at Kursk and those manufactured after that, that were issued to fighting units, were fitted with zim in the field as per regulations.
Resin looks like the real thing. PE is metal, so you still have this metally look around bends and edges. resin also takes paint better. also, PE looks to perfect, zimm eventually had the cr*p beat out of it and the tank probably looked like it went through a hurricane. Imagine chipping of PE zimmerit[V].
Hello,
petbat,
Thanks for the detailed run down on what’s needed for the various models.
Tankbuild121,
Thanks for the opinion on the zimmerit.
I’m still in the “more info” mode, so, can anyone recommend a particular set and manufacturer for the DML (D and A ) and Tamiya Jagdpanther kits?
Thanks,
Joe
Well, no one makes a set for the DML Panther D. It only goes for the italeri. If you build the early A, then cavalier or Atak; cavalier being a teed cheaper. For the jagdpanther, Tamiya’s Jagd is a late version, so no zimmerit, but Atak makes a set that backdates it to an early version. Cavalier makes a set for DML’s early also.
Tankbuild121,
Thanks. I thought the late Jagdpanther did have zimmerit but not the late Panther G.
Boy, does that ever make my day. I’ve wanted to do a Jagdpanther, but haven’t because I thought they needed zimmerit.
So, being a zimm-a-phobic, I could build DML’s Panther D (with apologies to petbat) and Tamiya’s Jagdpanther as are and be O.K.?
And wanting an A, I could build the Italeri (I know, it’s not as good as DML’s) and thin their zimmerit sheets.
Joe
