REVELL,S lack of interest

Modeling Subjects Ships
21

A small weakness in this argument is that several other kit manufacturers- Revell Europe, Trumpeter, Italeri, Academy, Tamiya, Hasegawa, Dragon, Heller, Zvezda, even Airfix- have, over the years, produced a steady stream of genuine new-mould ship and boat kits. Not all of these firms manufacture in low-wage economies. Most appear to prosper at least to the extent that R-M do.

How is it that they are apparently able to make a business case for new-mould ship kits, often large,complex and expensive to tool up for, where R-M, it seems, cannot? Is it solely down to the domination, in the home market,of car and truck kits in general, and NASCAR in particular?

Cheers,

Chris.

22

Revell Gato, 1/72nd scale.

23

Indeed. A Revell Europe tooling, not R-M.

24

I don’t know how much of the 1/72 *Gato-*class project originated with Revell Germany (or Revell Europe, as it now seems to be calling itself) and how much with Revell of the U.S. There may well have been some collaboration there - and as I understand it the actual molds were cut, and the plastic parts produced, in either Korea or China.

I do think it’s interesting to note the subtle changes that seem to have been taking place recently in the company (or companies), as demonstrated on their websites. In addition to the switch from “Revell Germany” to “Revell Europe,” the U.S. corporation seems to have dropped the “Monogram” name. I don’t know when it happened, but the web address used to have “Revell-Monogram” in it and no longer does. Unless I’m much mistaken, the name “Monogram” doesn’t appear anywhere on the company home page.

Clicking on “About Us” at the top of the home page does produce a photo of the company headquarters, with a “Revell Monogram” logo prominently displayed out front and a passing reference to the Monogram brand in the accompanying text: http://www.revell.com/news/about-us.html ). A caption says the photo was taken in 2006.

Putting two and two together, it looks like the Monogram brand name is a thing of the past (and Revell needs to update that web page). A number of old Monogram kits are still in the company’s catalog, but we Olde Phogies apparently need to start thinking of that grand old company name as a thing of the past. And I imagine the collectors among us will start snapping up the last kits that still have the Revell-Monogram logo on them.

25

I think the move to the new name ‘Revell Europe’ is partly because RoG (RE?) no longer se themselves as an essentially German brand,even though much of their output is based on German subjects. They no longer produce any kits or decals in Germany, and have not done so for some time.

The kits in the current RE catalogue are produced in Poland, the Czech Republic, Italy, Russia, China, Korea, Japan and Mexico. The company’s official name,however,remains Revell GmbH & Co. KG, which is Germanic enough for me!

Cheers,

Chris.

26

Tracy,

Thanks for the insight!

Bill Morrison

27

Working on my Revell gato sub for my 1st model build. I find this a great scale to start off with. Overall, I’ve had good luck in fitting most parts together. Yes…there’s a few spots on hull that need filling and sanding to match up. I’d love to see one of the model companies come out with WWll troop transport ships. AP, APA type ships. One of the overlooked heroes of the war.

28

Mark from Sarasota’s well balanced comments explain very well the rationale for producing any new kit by any manufacturer, not only Revell. Beancounters have to keep a company in business…Fact!

Would’nt we all like to see our most esoteric subject released. But we have to be realistic when you consider that a company has to sell many thousands of units to get a return on their investment in design, development, tooling, manufacturing, distribution and marketing costs just to simply stay in business. Common sense should tell any modeller that subjects of very limited appeal would only be produced at a loss by a mainstream kit manufacturer, and could have catastrophic consequences for them if they get it wrong. Rare stuff is best left to the ‘Cottage Industry’ side of the hobby where their overheads are very low.

As for Revell’s lack of interest, correct me if I am wrong, but have they not released a brand new kit of the Sailing Ship Vasa in 1/150th scale recently, which hopefully will be more correct than the old 70’s Airfix kit, that incidentally is very good considering when it was made. Revell have also recently issued new kits for a 1/24th scale London Routemaster Bus and Heikel 111 in 1/32nd scale, so they can hardly be accused of lack of interest considering the commitment they have made to making these new kits. Manufacturers tread a narrow path much of the time, so their marketing decisions have to be right to survive. Hornby UK the present owners of Airfix have been having a bit of a lean spell I learnt from the media of late, and hopefully they will pull through alright.

29

Revell is getting accolades over on the aircraft forums, for their new stuff— nice, detailed kits that are very reasonably priced.

The realiity is that ship models are such a small percentage of the market that it is hard to get the money back on a new mold.

I, for one, tire of reading complaints about inaccurate kits from 50 years ago. What’s the point? For example, the Revell CSS Alabama kit is 50 years old. It hasn’t gotten any better with age, and isn;t going to.

A copy of the Remembering Revell Kits book fell into my hands a couple of weeks ago. I found it very interesting to read how the company struggled for years-- that as early as the 1970s, they were already suffering from the drop of popularity of modeling…

30

I have to take issue with the premise of this thread, tankerbuilder. I find Revell ship kits, especially ROG, can be top notch (depends on kit). I was thrilled with the SMS Emden, and have won more awards for that kit than any other kit I have built. I did use a PE set on the kit, but virtually every other ship model I have built also needed PE detail. I have a modern tug from ROG and it will need PE but other than that I look forward to building it.

Even the US Revell kits are great for the price- a good value, especially the Cutty Sark and Constitution. I also have friends in contact with some of the suits at Revell, and they do care about what modelers want, but there is a big variation in what modelers want, unfortunately. We are not a monolithic community with everyone having the same wants and needs, and they have been burned lately by producing some models at the behest of loud modelers and having the kits do poorly on the market.

31

Don makes a good point - just how many Colombo Express’s can/will any one modeler buy and build?

32

I have read all this response to my original posting with interest. Now,when I think about it I do digress somewhat.But,I do have to ask again.Why don,t they do a VICTORY? It,s not far off from the old transports they did for the old multi-kits.As far as the COLOMBO EXPRESS is concerned,what would,ve happened ,BOTTOM LINE wise if they had done a 1/350 NORMANDIE or ANDREA DORIA? Both are even remembered by many of the older and not so old PHOGIES in the forums.

I for one think three of the most beautiful,YES,I said BEAUTIFUL ship models were the ARGENTINA,ORIANA and the really best on the market the SAVANNAH!! These were many years ago though.They do car kits in reaction to the market.They like many others are embroiled in the licensing bandwagon.I will say on that I would NOT like to be their lawyers on that one.See,I am not unreasonable.

The modeling community(ships) has asked for years for a NORMANDIE.So , why did RoG come out with the AIDA? The newer are sorry examples of the ships of history.They couldn,t hold a candle to the ILE de FRANCE or others.Now, as historic ships(sail) are concernedThe LARGE ships are fine and if incorrect can be fixed easily.

The smaller scaled versions are the crux of the complaints here.I have contacted REVELL as TRACY WHITE suggested to try and interest them in a ship operating right here on AMERICA,S west coast and it could be done from modified molds of an existing model.I am talking builders complete prints here! the response.Thank you for your interest in REVELL kits.Nothing more in all these years.

I do understand that ships are a small part of the overall market.Now here,s one ,there are many well known ship types that plied the GREAT LAKES for years.Instead of the COLOMBO EXPRESS, why not the EDMUND FITZGERALD?The whole world knows of her.There are many,many I could name ,but , there are other things I am interested in as well as ships.The company(REVELL ) put out years ago a ,TO ME great selection of 1/25 cars that had darned near working everything.

They were not for the average modeler though.I thought they were fine,IF you specifically followed the instructions.They built into fine representations of the autos they were supposed to be.Along that vein,they also did some very interesting 1/32? scale multipiece car kits(REMEMBER THOSE?) Well , I again have to come to their defense.The market WAS different then.Those cars really CHALLENGED the perfectionists among us who just needed window glass,or up convertible tops

I would rather see from them a decision to NOT try to keep up with the jonses.TAMIYA,HASEGAWA,TRUMPETER and others have taken some marketing chances.Look what that did to LINDBERG, never really known for the best in the genre.I say concentrate on what will take the market (ships) by storm.

OH,what ever happened to their 1/144 FLETCHER ? I haven,t seen one around for a while.Did it bomb? Shame, shame,I saw one at my local hobby shop that was put together.Now that was a good model.The point here is, Again I will even give the devil his or her due.I don,t hate REVELL,I just don,t know what goes on in headquarters marketing meetings.Who,s running the ship?

Give the market what they want even in ships to a point.I am sure a 1/350 NORMANDIE would,ve cost less to develop,create molds for and such than the 1/144 FLETCHER. No, don,t give US another AIDA.Give us historical vessels that were known world wide.I am sure it can be done.If the model of the SHELL WELDER(a large scale)1/200? scale offshore tanker by what used to be the old IMAII, can go on E-BAY for well over a hundred dollars or more.

Need I say more? Revell did ,for many years give us what we wanted.We were the old generation.Those of us who were around for WW2 and KOREA remember the time.The new KIDS don,t . SO fall somewhere in the middle, that,s all, and do it good!REVELL has weathered a lot.Maybe they could cut down on the stuff that not many build even in snap form.They seem to be doing good with those $25.00 STAR WARS kits. On mfsob,s question,I have to ask, HOW MANY P-51s or BF109 models or F-16 models can one build either?

33

Tanker,

Actually, the 1/144 USS Fletcher is still in the RoG catalog, as is the 1/72 Type VII C. And, I have been impressed with their efforts to stay in the sailing ship world as well; their Wasa is excellent! I also appreciate their Portugese frigate, the Batavia, and other sailing ships, although I wish for more Napoleonic warships. But, I do agree with you in principal!

Bill

34

It’s nice to see a thread last so long.

As an earlier reply said, it’s all about the money. How can I get what the consumer what they want and get it to them as cheaply as possible in order to make as much profit as possible. In the early days this was pretty easy. Jump to today and it’s not so simple anymore. Designs can cost a mint to make and even more to develop into molds. If I am correct Revell does not do much in the way of in-house designing anymore, preferring to purchase the rights to another company’s mold. The recent 1/350 USS Wasp is a good example. I saw the kit as a Revell, but bought it from Gallery.

And that 1/350 Wasp? How often are you willing to put over $100 on a single model? And more and more are falling into this category. 1/96 connie is another one whose price is up there. And with the price of oil rising (and as a result prices in general due to shipping costs) we’re going to see smaller scale kits going up in price.

I will say there are a lot of good kits out there from Revell/RoG. They have always been superb with their auto kits, and the wars in afghanistan and Iraq have brought a renewed interest in Aircraft kits. And we are seeing a little light when it comes to ship kits. But, the problem here is that Revell is dusting off old molds and repackaging them, resulting in kits with more flash and warps than normal. I was able to compare a newer 1/96 Connie with one from 1976 and the differences were shocking. But this isn’t necessarily Revell’s fault. Revell/RoG is owned by Hobbico, which is an employee-owned company. This means that costs are tightly controlled. It is Hobbico that isn’t as concerned more than Revell. I would say Revell lowers their heads and nods when Hobbico tells them they can’t do something that would be “cool” for modelbuilders.

There are signs the ship-model market is changing. I should note such kits as the afore-mentioned USS Wasp is an absolutely excellent kit, as is the recently released sister ship Iwo Jima. And I am just finishing up Zvezda’s Black Pearl and, while not totally faithful to the actual ship, comes together to be a fine ship. From other manufacturers there are a large number of ships out there with more modern ships on the way. I for one cannot wait for the 1/350 USS New York. And we should not forget other manufacturer’s kits are still out there, with Heller’s very nice lineup of period ships still floating around and the Asian manufacturers churning out a healthy selection of more modern examples, I would say the ship-model industry is churning along quite well.

And finally I must add. Revell is going through what looks like the beginning of a renaissance, so we may see some surprises coming from our old favorite. As others have said. Email the manufacturers. They do actually read them. Though I doubt we’ll see the scale anymore because of the costs involved, I personally dream of seeing a 1/96 USS Pennysylvania (the 120 gun ship of the line) or even the USS Columbus (74 gun) or the Independence, all fine sailing ships that would make wonderful kits.

One can dream.

Phil

35

no matter where the kits are molded, most of the molds are made in the U.S. and Garmany. the molds are VERY expensive to make. my father works at a machining company that makes (among other things) molds for other companies that mold things in plastic and resin materials. one mold they made was for a toy company for making toy car bodies similar to slot car bodies with windows molded in, etc. the mold was roughly 3 ft by 3 ft, and cost almost $17,000 after all the labor, design, materials, and final machining for ONE mold with pieces roughly the size of bars of soap. now, consider this: avery sprue of parts in your kit box usually comes from a different mold, molds that require much more design, fine tuning, precision, and machining time. so thats probably upwards of $150,000+ to release a new kit JUSY FOR THE MOLDS. plus you have to pay the employees to research a subject, pay a pro modeler to build the kit, pay a photographer to take pictures, and graphic designers to make the decals and box. that will add another triple-digit price tag to releasing a new kit, quite a gamble.

Simple solution to your dislike of Revell kits: Dont build them.

36

Good post

About 10 years ago the tooling estimate for injected plastic kits was 1000 dollars per part! .

While the cost per part may have decreased due to the rise in CAD/CAM you still have to amortize the cost of the equipment and pay the designer(s) who now create a virtual model as opposed to the guy who made the 3D model which had to be pantographed down to scale.

The plastic hobby business must survive on mass sales of thousands of units, not to the hundreds of modelers who hang out on sites such as these. Oh yes, and plastic ship model sales rank at about 5% of total plastic sales. At one time car models far outsold airplanes. I think the balance has shifted over the past few years - but plastic ships still place far back

37

We’ve been over this argument before. It’s like beating a dead horse and expecting the animal to pull the cart. For my formally two cents(inflation has pushed it up to 5 cents), it’s either except the status quo, or scratch build your own model. Neither suggestions have received rave reviews on this Forum.

Montani semper liberi. Happy modeling to all and every one of you.

Crackers [8-|]