Red Storm on the Reich GB - Sept. 8, 2008 - May 9, 2009

[espins1]

I made up my mind - I’ll be building the 1/35 Cyber-Hobby Panther F.

And Dupes, you should start thinking about guidelines and an official post for the 251 GB, we’ve been talking about it for forever and an age…start sometime in the fall and run for 251 days. Or something like that [;)]

I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced.

Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type. If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin.

[bufflehead]

Scott, put me down for either a Tamiya or DML JS-II! I’ll know which one as soon as I’m done with my trip. I’m so glad the start date is Sept. 8, it will give me time to finish all the unfinished GB kits I have sitting on the shelf![:I]

[espins1]

Scott, put me down for either a Tamiya or DML JS-II! I’ll know which one as soon as I’m done with my trip. I’m so glad the start date is Sept. 8, it will give me time to finish all the unfinished GB kits I have sitting on the shelf![:I]

I hear that buddy. I’ve got a few builds that I need to get done before Sept. [(-D]

[Hermesminiatures]

I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced.

Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type. If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin.

Did that quote come from this article? It seems a little loose in differentiating between Panther F and Panther II. The Cyber-Hobby Panther F is the Schmallturm mounted on the G chassis, not a Panther II chassis. There were at least two photographically documented Ausf G’s mounted with the F turret, and lots of spare parts lying around at the DB factory. I think that a G with F turret would have had a pretty good chance of seeing some combat…as good as the Maus.

If you’d prefer I build something else, I have a Hetzer I could do. The guidelines would get kind of sticky here, though, as far as what’s allowed - do you need a picture, did it have to see combat or just exist in the specified time period, etc. Personally I think things like the Maus and Panther F would be fine, since they fit well with the last defense idea, and they do have some evidence going for them and aren’t totally weird Panzerwaffe '46 designs. Either way, though, it’s not a big deal.

[espins1]

I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced.

Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type. If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin.

Did that quote come from this article? It seems a little loose in differentiating between Panther F and Panther II. The Cyber-Hobby Panther F is the Schmallturm mounted on the G chassis, not a Panther II chassis. There were at least two photographically documented Ausf G’s mounted with the F turret, and lots of spare parts lying around at the DB factory. I think that a G with F turret would have had a pretty good chance of seeing some combat…as good as the Maus.

If you’d prefer I build something else, I have a Hetzer I could do. The guidelines would get kind of sticky here, though, as far as what’s allowed - do you need a picture, did it have to see combat or just exist in the specified time period, etc. Personally I think things like the Maus and Panther F would be fine, since they fit well with the last defense idea, and they do have some evidence going for them and aren’t totally weird Panzerwaffe '46 designs. Either way, though, it’s not a big deal.

Sold! [(-D]

I think both the Maus and the Panther F, in the instances we’ve discussed so far, would be totally allowed as they are in the spirit of this GB and the final desperate days of the Reich. I just wanted to be careful not to open the flood gates for a slew of paper panzers and what ifs, if you know what I mean. [:)]

[Glamdring]

I’m glad we’re allowing the Maus. Now, to start the research to get it right, since there was only 1 of them battle ready.

[JMart]

Excellent list of reference and info… may I humbly suggest another excellent book?

Armageddon - The Battle for Germany 1944-1945 by the eminent historian Max Hastings (author of Overlord and many others). A tad on the academic side, reads more like a Keegan book than an Ambrose one. Goes in depth into some of the reasons behind the events, but also contains LOADS of detailed combat info (no pics though

As for me, Ill build the old Tamiya T34/85 and try not to bring the quality of the GB too far down Cheers

[wing_nut]

I am most definitely in on this GB. Only question is … what to build. I have a 3 in 1 Tiger I in the pile so would a final production Tiger I qualify? If so, would it have had zimmerit applied at that stage?

My 1^st choice though is a Sd.Kfz. 234/3. Doing a little research this morning if read that it produced until Dec 1944 so the time frame is right. The Dragon kit comes with markings for one that was with the “Ulrich Von Hutten” Division, Germany 1945. Anyone have any info on the Division? If it turns out they were engaging the Yanks and Brits to the west, would that disqualify it for a “Red Storm” GB? Or is just having the right time frame good enough?

I would do my KingTiger, but I can’t wait 'til Sep. to start that[:-^]

[mmc]

After much thinking I’ve narrowed the choice to either 8 ton semi track with flak 37 (the older one with the armoured cab) or a Jagdpanzer IV L70 Lang.

Could anyone let me know if these fit in with the time scale

Cheers, Mark

[dupes]

And Dupes, you should start thinking about guidelines and an official post for the 251 GB, we’ve been talking about it for forever and an age…start sometime in the fall and run for 251 days. Or something like that [;)]

Hermes - good idea. I’ll get on it this week…I know there’s a lot of people chomping at the bit for that one. [:D]

Like the 251 day build span as well. [swg]

[Svenne_Duva]

I would like to join this build with a Panther in Late City Camo.
Please advice what kit is the most appropriate starting point?

Best Regards
Svenne

[TacoBuff]

i don’t know if i’d have time for this build, but a quick question, Do you think lend lease tanks like shermans would be in use this late in the war? I know Academy has a russian service sherman.

thanks

[tigerman]

Since you’re starting this at about the time I was going to start my next one, I might jump into yours and postpone my idea. No biggie. I’d lean to my AFV Club Pak-40. I might actually finish in the alotted time. LOL

Here’s a few refs for the battle:

• The Fall of Berlin, by Antony Beever
• Stalingrad to Berlin, by Earl Ziemke
• Battle for Berlin, by Earl Ziemke

[mg42gunner]

Id really like to join this one. I have a Dragon Panther G late smart kit that I think will fit perfect. I also like the later start date, as Ive got a couple builds I should get out of the way before starting the panther. And manstein, those photos you posted were really neat! Definitely got me in the mood to build something defending berlin!

[SMJmodeler]

espins1: Nothing like the excitement of joining another great GB!!! Put me down for a T-34/85 for now please. Let me check the stash for German qualifiers and get back to you.

HIGHLY recommended resource: Osprey’s *Modeling the T-34…*I know I’ll have it near the workbench!

[espins1]

Excellent list of reference and info… may I humbly suggest another excellent book?

Armageddon - The Battle for Germany 1944-1945 by the eminent historian Max Hastings (author of Overlord and many others). A tad on the academic side, reads more like a Keegan book than an Ambrose one. Goes in depth into some of the reasons behind the events, but also contains LOADS of detailed combat info (no pics though

As for me, Ill build the old Tamiya T34/85 and try not to bring the quality of the GB too far down Cheers

I still have a lot more book references to put up on the first page, just haven’t had the chance to do it yet. And please, if anyone has any recommendations, let me know and I’ll add them to the first page. There is a lot of great reference material out there and great reading! [:)]

[espins1]

I’m glad we’re allowing the Maus. Now, to start the research to get it right, since there was only 1 of them battle ready.

Me too, that’s going to be a cool build! [8D]

[SMJmodeler]

As for me, Ill build the old Tamiya T34/85 and try not to bring the quality of the GB too far down Cheers

JMart: I’ll be building that old Tamiya T34/85 too…hopefully we can do it some justice and together we’ll bring the quality of this GB UP!!![#toast]

[espins1]

I am most definitely in on this GB. Only question is … what to build. I have a 3 in 1 Tiger I in the pile so would a final production Tiger I qualify? If so, would it have had zimmerit applied at that stage?

My 1^st choice though is a Sd.Kfz. 234/3. Doing a little research this morning if read that it produced until Dec 1944 so the time frame is right. The Dragon kit comes with markings for one that was with the “Ulrich Von Hutten” Division, Germany 1945. Anyone have any info on the Division? If it turns out they were engaging the Yanks and Brits to the west, would that disqualify it for a “Red Storm” GB? Or is just having the right time frame good enough?

I would do my KingTiger, but I can’t wait 'til Sep. to start that[:-^]

I’ll do some checking later today. Getting ready to get tortured by my fitness trainer from 11-12 today. She’s only about 5 ft tall and very teeny, but man does she work my butt off! [xx(]

[dupes]

Got any pics of this sparkplug? [(-D]