I was wondering…has anyone ever flown a real cessna 172, 150, or 182 and succesfully completed an airlion roll? I know it seems like a crazy Idea but this teenager has done it in flight sims. I just want to know if anyone has been a bold pilot and acctully tried this? I hope I spelled airiloin correctly? I don’t think I did…[:)] Since, I don’t think the frame could take it? Wouldn’t the plane break apart or the engine stall out if it isn’t fuel injected?
As a pilot I can tell you that if you ever ask the question, “I wonder if anyone ever tried that in a Cessna”, the answer is ALWAYS yes. As a testament to these awesome aircraft, chances are good they even lived to tell about it.
Actually, an aileron roll in those airplanes could be accomplished by a proficient pilot without the wings coming off. Mind you, Cessna wouldn’t recommend it - except in a 150 Aerobat.
Please, PLEASE do not do aerobatics in a Cessna! Computer flight sims do not accurately model all of the aerodynamic and structural aspects of any airplane’s flight envelope. Even the dedicated full motion simulators for large aircraft have parameters in which the simulator just “guesses”, as there does not exist any flight test data to accurately model the realm of flight.
Other than the Aerobat, Cessnas simply do not have the structural strength to do aerobatics, and when you look at all the modifications they had to do to get the 150 certified in the aerobatic category, it is an eye-opener! Their roll rate is slow, and this usually leads to a novice pilot chickening out in the middle of the roll, and then pulling through to get back to level. This leads to exceeding the redline airspeed, exceeding the G limit and shedding the tail. Plus, with any negative G, the engine will quit, and most pilots go into a panic when that happens. OR, on the slow end of the spectrum, the airplane ends up in a spin, which nobody seems to know how to recover these days.
I believe strongly that every pilot should be proficient in aerobatics, but please, rent a Decathlon or Pitts and a competent instructor and get all the vitamin G you want! We would love to have you in the sport, as long as you respect it.
As Ashley said, they are not mean for aerobatics. The closest I’ve come is doing a wing-over with an Air Force IP with over 3000 hours in the O2-A. We never exceeded 170 kts and always less that 2 G on the meter. He guy was one heck of a stick and rudder pilot. The airframes are actually able to take the aerobatics in many cases, but the manufacturer liability was too much. Thanks Mr. Lawyer.
IMHO pilots need more aerobatic/spin training. When I was learning my dad was a partner in a Steen Skybolt. We went out and flipped it around. I feel I am a better pilot for that training.
After reading the responses, I realize my original answer was too cavalier. As a previous poster said, do not actually try to do it!
My point (not well stated) was supposed be that all sorts of crazy maneuvers have been attempted in Cessna aircraft and it is a testament to their design that they have held together as much as they have. While an aileron roll is not a particularly tricky maneuver for a pilot proficient in aerobatics, it is tricky for the aircraft. Only the 150 is certified for aerobatics.
The problem with aerobatics in uncertified aircraft is that structural damage may be cumulative, and the next guy who buys the airplane may pay the price when performing an otherwise perfectly acceptable maneuver.
I have a pic of and O2-A FAC from Viet Nam. It was doing some fancy flying to evade AAA. The upper wing surface looked almost corrigated from the G’s. I’ll try to find and post.
Other than the 150 Aerobat none of the aircraft you asked about are either designed for, nor stressed for, aerobatics. Even the Aeropbat is limited in the manuvers it can take. Try a Citabria or a Pitts if you want to do aerobatics. Go up with an experienced instructor. I’ll also warn anyone against trying aerobatic manuvers in a non-aerobatic rated airplane. If you live to tell about it you will be one of the few exceptions. If the FAA finds out about it you will lose your license. If it is not your airplane the owner will be thinking about killing you. Nuf said?
The wing overs we did were standard in the O2-A while delivering marking rockets. Not really considered an Aerobatic manuever. Like was mentioned get a good IP and the correct airframe to practice.
Oscardeuce, you mentioned the Skybolt. My wife and I just finished re-covering and painting one and we delivered it from Cincinnati to Altus Oklahoma last weekend. It’s open cockpit, 260 horsepower and was a barrel of fun to fly, albeit very heavy on the controls compared to my Christen Eagle. Aerobatics in the Bolt were just unhurried, it lofted through everything as liesurely as you please!
Don’t forget that the prototype 707 was aileron rolled, I’m there’s lots of stuff that could do it but shouldn’t.
“A friend of mine” did it in a 210. Of course I wasn’t there, and wouldnt take part in such activities because of the chance of losing all my ratings, but he said he would never do it again. I… I mean HE almost needed to change his shorts afterwards. He thought it would be fun to try with an empty airplane, but the slow rate of roll without enough airspeed can get ugly. He dropped 700ft because of the loss of airspeed.
Did he learn his lesson? Yes, yes I did.
Look at the aft half of the wings. Just a little over G.
Of the list you made, none I would even think about trying it in. I don’t know how many hours of 172 time I have, enough to say that there are things you would not even think about doing in that airplane. In a 182? Only if I wanted to earn the smoking hole award. A 150? The Aerobat may have stressed for it, but that thing is a serious hound in acro. You absolutely must be an airspeed hawk before starting a manuver in that bird. The only thing it did really nice was a split-s. By the time you got it inverted, your airspeed was so low that it dropped like a rock through the bottom.
As for interesting manuvers, both the 172 and 182 have to be the nicest MCA birds I have ever flown. You can still with the stall horn blaring and make them do what ever you wanted. Wonderful airplanes in slow flight. Get a good headwind going and fly them backwards!
Cheers!
Sad and scary thing is, half the airplanes at flight schools in the local area look like this. It’s hard to find “tight skin” on a wing around here.
Some people think that the wrinkles don’t really effect the flight of the plane…just go practice some stalls or steep turns in one. Your stall speed is a lot higher than you’re used to.
That ain’t nuttin. Check out any BUFF on the ramp. Look on the fuselage, especially right ahead of the wing leading edge. So wrinkled they look like a Ford Tri-motor. I’ve heard the C-5s had a tendency to get a wrinkle here and there.
All seriousness, that guy had to really be pulling in that bird. I would love to check the boom attach points for cracks as well as the spar web. You just know he popped rivets somewhere in that plane. Of course look for it to be advertised in Trade-a-Plane with no damage history. [swg]
I fly Cessna 172s regularly and I can tell you that you could probably do a roll, but the roll would be like 5 seconds long (very long), and the hard part would be getting it back after you go inverted. A loop, however, is impossible. You would stall out, and probably not recover. I do crazy stuff in FS 2004, but when it comes to aerobatics in it, screw the Extra 300, download an F/A 18 super hornet and go at it. I have a Saitek X52 Flight Control System, and it makes flying a lot more fun.
The Flight Sim difficulty and realism can be set to almost life-like conditions in the settings options.
If you have a lot of time and are proficient, just about any aircraft can be looped and rolled. I know of two high time pilots who regularly loop and roll their ultra-lights and have worked on at least one Breezy (with stock J-3 wings) that was signed off by the FAA for aerobatics. Perhaps the best demonstration of what can be done with a box-stock aircraft was the show that Bob Hoover used to put on with the Shrike. The only modifications to that aircraft was the addition of a set of shoulder harness. I had the privilege of speaking with him several times when he performed at our airshows and I remember one time that he pointed out that if the manauver was performed properly, you can do a loop or roll and not put any stress on the airframe. If done properly, you should never pull more than 1 G.
As far as a loop or roll in a Cessna goes, I wouldn’t try one myself (don’t have near the experience or guts needed) but have seen it done - used to be a skydiver pilot at our airport that used to do loops and rolls in a 182 on a regular basis when coming back down from altitude after dropping the airheads. Someone even got it on video and the FAA got a copy of it - They know who it was but couldn’t catch him (couldn’t get the n number off the video). He was finally killed, but it was a drunk that got him on the way home from the airport one Saturday night.
And thats why the man rolled the 707, to show if done correctly you can do it without stressing the airplane. Plus it was a great publicity stunt.
Ok, the secret to rolls is two things, good entry speed and proper coordination of the surfaces. This will work for about anything you dare to try, but using an Aerobat or Citabria since the speeds are very close. Enter at at least 110 mph (NOT kts) pull level and then pitch up at least 10 degrees before you toss the stick over to the left. Use left to get the prop working with you on this. As you pass through knife edge add top rudder, in this case right rudder to maintain nose up along the horizon. At inverted release the rudder and add a slight amount of forward stick pressure which you will release as you move toward knife edge again. Keep the nose on the horizon! Again add top rudder, now left, as you pass through knife edge and return to straight and level flight. Remember, this is done as a no wind problem and you should lose no altitude and airspeed should be around 90 on finish. Fail to do any of the above and the nose will drop like a rock, you will pick up a ton of airspeed and have to pull to recover on return to level flight. NOW you get the chance for overstressing the plane. Blue side up is cool, Blue side down is way more fun. I agree forget the Extra, fly a Sukhoi 26 or 29! Real rock & roll! Gawd I miss my Eagle!
Well, if you ARE going to roll a Cessna, for heaven’s sake don’t do it that way. You want a positive G parabolic roll. The slow roll Il Leone describes requires 1 negative G, which I think you will find is the LIMIT for the airplane. Plus, you have no G meter to tell if you are approaching or exceeding the limit. One should also appreciate silence, which is what you will experience as soon as you get less than one positive G when the carburetor float slams shut. Your first experience at negative G should be in an airplane strong enough to allow you some room to screw up. Anyone who advocates aerobatics in non-aerobatic airplanes is an idiot, period.