I think this is the first time I’ve been on here this week as work as has just been MANIC!!!
I have 3 days off now (3rd March is a bank holiday Monday in the UK) so I’m hoping to get cracking on this Halftrack build.
I have a quick question re washes…I’ve done the usual and Googled etc but am getting conflicting results which aren’t much help tbh so I thought I’d run it past you guys.
Basically I’ve started using oils for my washes and they work great BUT they leave a grainy sediment in all the gaps and holes which sometimes can look great but on a newer cleaner vehicle it just doesn’t work!
The oils I’m using at present are just bog standard and fairly cheap artists oils so I’ve ordered a good variety of MIG and W&N oils. I’m thinning them with Mineral (white) Spirits. When I put a small blob into my pallette and apply the thinner the oils break down but there is always a grainy pile of sediment at the bottom?
Now then, am I using too much oil paint and not enough thinner or vice versa? I’ve got some MIG Thinner for Washes - would that be better than Mineral Spirits. Is the cheap oils I’m using not helping or should they do the job ok?
Finally, I’m thinking of trying an Enamel wash over my acrylic painted WIP which should be ok. When it comes to the dullcoate should I be using Acrylic rattlecan matte varnish seeing as there is an Enamel wash on the surface?
VERY confusing!
I’d have liked to have posted this on my WIP thread but I’d like to get as many eyes as possible to read this to allow them to give me their views.
I am new to washes myself, only done 3 so far, so i am no expert. I use W&N oils and white spirit. I have not had a problem with a grainy sediment. I mix my wash in a jar, and if its left for a bit it does form a sediment, but its not grainy, its just looks like bit of the paint setteling at the bottom. I can only assume its your cheaper oils. Some of my oils paints are years old and still seem to work just fine.
Hopefully somone more experianced on oils and washers can help more.
I kinda have the same problem. My washes look great wet, but as they dry the pigment is scattered and look pixelated . ive tried numerous thinners like Mig’s turpenoid and mineral spirits as well as Model Masters brush cleaner…
Yup, never had any problems with grainy sediment either. Mineral spirits are fantastic with W&N oils- thats what I use. Mineral spirits are far cheaper than Mig thinner---- BTW make sure Mig thinner for washes is for OIL or ENAMEL paint… Acrylic thinner wont thin oil, as im sure you can foresee.
BUT I’d just stick with the spirits if i were you. Just use the spirits with W&N oils (or other moderately-good oil or enamel paints), and the results will be great.
It won’t matter what dull coat you use as long as you let everything dry thoroughly. It will protect everything underneath. If, however, you want to put some oil washes on after the clear varnish, you have to use an acrylic clear coat, (oil-based washes would dissolve enamel)… It shouldnt effect any paint or washes underneath, nomatter what you use- acrylic, lacquer or enamel. I’d test it first just to be safe, though. Just put it on in thin coats and dont twouch it until its dry.
Hope that helps- message me if you have any more questions.
Ben, I’ve never come across that, and I use W&N oils,as well as MIG stuff, and have never had that sediment.
That is most likely the result of your cheaper oils, which are most likely using a larger pigment. Better oils use a finer-ground pigment in the paint.
You should be alright with the new oils from MIG and W&N. Be aware though, that MIG’s “Thinner for Washes” IS an “enamel”-type thinner, and take MUCH longer to dry than mineral spirits. And you CAN use regular mineral spirits with MIG stuff.
You didn’t say if you’re using a blending brush after doing your washes but I have found that by blending with a good, soft bristled wide brush it seems to wick up most of the heavier pigment from the crevices. Just don’t over do it or you’ll take off too much of the wash.
I also use Turpenoid as a thinner as it seems to be milder than regular mineral spirits and is easier on the base coat and any exposed styrene. Play around and see what works best for you.
S&S: I haven’t come across a ‘blending brush’ before, I just use the non bristle end of a larger stumpy brush to work the oil and thinner together.
Basically, I’m getting a nice wash which, when dried, looks good BUT there is always an accumulation of grainy pigment around crevices and hatches/panel lines etc. Also when my wash is finished there is always an amount of undissolved oil paint in the base of my pallete?
I doubt I’ll be at any washing stages this weekend so today I’m going to a local Artist store to get some Artist Turpenoid to see if that works any better. At least it shouldn’t have much of an odour. My oils will be here next week so I’ll try them next weekend.
I’ve also got some various MIG and Pro-Modeller washes which are as yet unused so I might try them too.
The oil pigment of any brand is heavier than the fluid dissolving it…this is called a suspension for the science geeks. [:D] Every time you go to re dip the brush just give a couple good swirls to keep things all mixed up. Some colors seem to have heavier pigments than other. Grey’s, Burnt Umber, Burnt Sienna, etc. tend to have heavier pigments than the lighter colors seem to. But you should still be giving it a good mix often to keep everything consistent.
Cheers Brian. I’ve had a think and I’m sure that I know where I’m going wrong - too much oil paint and not enough Thinner.
Anyway, just after I posting my last reply the Royal Mail delivery van turned up-with my order! I wasn’t expecting him on a bank holida. weekend.
So, he bought a couple of pots of MIG Filter which I do like to use now and the MIG oils too [Y] I then had to pop up to the LHS to stock up on several different XF paints and acrylic primer (no Tamiya Rattlecan grey plastic primer as usual so I had to settle for Humbrol). I took a look at their oil paint selection which was dismal to say the least! I had a look at the bottles of the Artists TurpenTINE which they keep, the smell of that really did nearly knock me out!
Luckily we have a proffesional artists shop in town which specialises in W&N stuff so I popped over there and bought a few oils and W&N Artist’ White Spirit. They had run out of low odour and Turpenoid but the guy who served me (and really knew his stuff seeing as builds 1/48 aircraft) said to try the Artist’s White Spirit as that is what he uses and gets great results!
So, In total, I’ve now got to try out…
W&N Artists White Spirit
W&N Olive Green Oil (for my up coming ONTOS build)
W&N Burnt Sienna Oil
W&N Brown Ochre Oil
W&N Indian Red Oil
MIG Abteilung Light Rust Brown Oil
MIG Abteilung Faded Green Oil (for the ONTOS again)
MIG Abteilung Shadow Brown Oil
MIG Filter for Panzer Grey
MIG Filter for White / Yellow
MIG Tan for Tritonal Cammo
MIG Brown Filter For Dark Green (for the ONTOS)
These didn’t cost a great deal at all which is a bonus-the oils were very cheap as was the White Spirit.
I’ll be very interested to see what differences in results that I get when it comes to the wash stage
One more question, I use acrylics so don’t need to use a protective barrier but I like to use a Klear coat to help with the wash. What types of washes do you guys use on top of what type of paint? Ie enamel, acrylic, oil, custom made wash etc…
For the record, I nearly always paint with Tamiya acrylics, and always use regular Low-Odor mineral spirits to do my washes. I almost NEVER seal anything before washing. Although occasionally I’ll seal AFTER one wash if I want to preserve the effect it gave and don’t want it to be destroyed by a subsequent wash or filter. Occasionally, I’ll use MIG’s thinner,when I want to be able to manipulate the wash for quite a while afterward—like when I’m using it as more of a subtle fliter.
I never use enamels for anything. A brief period of working with them for car models completely turned me off to their characteristics. Too delicate, and they take too long to fully dry, whereas acrylics are good to go after an hour or so.
Clearcoats are not necessary when using oils on Tamiya paints EXCEPT for decals. Make sure you have those sealed up real good or you can get seepage under the decals.
I use (primarily) Tamiya acrylics and don’t gloss coat for washes either. I will flat coat decals so that any wash/weathering has a uniform flat surface to “take” on.
Sorry, I meant gloss coat for decals-not washes. My bad!
I’ve been getting varied results with my decals lately. I’ve tried Klear coats, Decal Sol & normal gloss varnish but I still get some silvering. After washes have been applied the silvering seems to be far less noticeable but it’s still annoying!
I’ve picked up a can of Humbrol Acrylic Rattlecan Gloss 35 (clear) which I’m going to try on my Halftrack. I’ll be interested to see how that works and as I’m not going for a heavy washed out finish I might see how the wash goes on top of the gloss coat-I should imaging it would be good for panel lines etc?
I too had a run with bad oils, I bought W&N and Mig’s, and have not had any issues. As I was reading the post, I was thinking, " I wonder if he’s thinning enough ? ", and then I read where you said you need to thin more…Any way, one thing I learned the hard way, what are you using as a pallate ? Ihave found that foam paper plates work well, as they will wick away extra oil. Just make sure you’re not using them straight from the tube. Here is what I got after “upgrading” my oils and studying the Doog’s technique’s.
Brutus, that;s some fine weathering you’ve done on that K5!
Ben—if you wash over flat, you’ll get more “tooth” from the flat finish, and it will retain more of the wash, meaning you’ll get more tonal shift from the wash. If you wash over gloss, more of it will run off and into the crevices and lines.
I never really go with a gloss finish because it’s just more crap laid over the finish. The less layers you have, the less you’re obscuring detail; also, gloss can potentially eventually “yellow”. When I want to really lay in the panel lines and crevices, etc, I just do fine pin washes all over with oil.
Though this depends on the complexity of the decals you’re using, I personally like to photocopy the decals, then cut the photocopied picture out with a good blade , and stencil them on. That way, I never have to use a clear coat. Then they will also weather similarly, and look more unified with the rest of the model. Just food for thought…
As mentioned earlier, keep the mix WELL stirred! I stir EVERY time I dip the brush. Couple other suggestions: #1 thin your mix…it’s easy to add another wash if needed and #2 keep a wet leading edge going and turn the model as you go (wearing latex gloves w/o powder)…let gravity pull the wash around the model. If you’ve let each subsequent wash dry thoroughly AND you don’t apply to much at once the mix dries pretty quick and should help solve your problem.
