Greetings!
As many of you know, this is a mixed media kit of resin, wood, and photoetched metal. I have a question about affixing wood to resin and affixing wood to metal, since the kit includes a wooden framework on which to cement the framework to the resin hull and to cement the metal decks to the wood. What is the best cement/CA/epoxy to use in this case?
Bill
Bad memories with that kit… I tried it maybe 15 years ago but I wasn’t up to the task at the time… I botched it badly, chucked it and didn’t touch a model again for years. [*-)] I wish I had kept it; I could have easily fixed it today.
Anyway, for mixed media stuff like that I would use wood glue for wood to wood bonds and CA for wood to resin and resin to brass, ect. There is some argument over the longevity of CA glues and you could do epoxy for an extremely good bond but I like the convenience of CA and haven’t had any problems with my kits falling apart afterwards so…
Thanks! I started the framework supports for the upper hull and decks by using ZAP Green, a medium CA. My concern with that approach is that the brass parts for the upper hull will be under some tension when I shape the metal to fit the frames, and I have some doubts about the longterm strength of the CA.
This kit is disappointing on several levels. First, there are no rivets or weld lines on the hull at all. It is a large resin casting totally bereft of any details. Second, the parts don’t fit well. For example, the centerline supports (there are two halves, one forward and one aft) are too long by approximately 3/8". There is no instruction about where to cut to maintain the correct dimensions for the frames. Third, the centerline support is misshapen and needs trimming. I suppose this is par for the course given that Amati is a well-known HECEPOB company, to use John Tilley’s term.
There is one other disappointing factor; there are no after-market detail sets for this kit. There are abundant conversion sets for the Revell injection-molded U-Boat model kits, but they are Type VII C and Type IX C boats whereas U-47 is a Type VII B. There are detail differences that need to be considered.
I suppose that these problems are what makes our hobby fun. Improving kits is just part of this game.
If anything, the longevity of CA is an unknown, not a verified fact. I use it regularly for PE; I have a couple kits I did in the 90s and plenty more that are newer but still several years old without any problems so I’m not too worried about it.
The real problem is the wood as that material tends to expand and contract a lot with time and season changes. Might be extra insurance to put wood sealer on it before covering it up too. You can also anneal the brass with a torch to remove the spring in the metal which would help longevity too.
I am not at all familiar with that kit. Is there a possibility of replicating the wood parts in styrene? Or even perhaps .0625 aluminum?
It might solve some problems.
EDIT: Bill, I google image searched the thing and I now see what you are dealing with. Seriously I would consider making a replacement for the wood frame. Otherwise use cleat two part epoxy. I don’t think CA will be up to the job at that large a scale.
Those are both excellent suggestions! In fact, I have been experimenting with the wood by sealing it because it absorbs the CA, leaving only a very brittle bond. The centerline framework is very inflexible and will not bend to fit the hull contours, so I cut out wedges between each athwartships bulkhead. While the two centerline pieces do now bend more easily, the CA still does not hold. I bought 5-minute epoxy today to add strength, but I like the idea of simply replacing the wood frame with plastic. That is a great suggestion!
Extending the idea, I also might end up replacing the brass upper hull pieces with plastic. Although anealing the metal with a blow torch would ease the tension that fitting the sides to the frames would cause, thin plastic sheet, attached with CA and a good plastic cement would create a stronger bond. It would also be easier to deal with any issues with the seams.
Now, if I could only figure out how to post pics . . . [:$]
Bill
Bill did you read the build on modelwarships? He found the wood assemblies to be about 1/2" too long for the recess. If you haven’t you should. I read another build where the modeler layed out the locations of the wood cross members and glued them down without the long spine pieces.
I was curious to know if the wood pieces show up through the deck perf.
All pretty complicated…
One question about this kit surely deserves to be asked: What makes it preferable to the Revell plastic version?
I’ve never laid eyes on the Amati kit, but it just doesn’t seem to me that the materials and construction methods are particularly well suited to a model of a submarine. (Amati is like that. What’s the logic behind building a model of the Titanic out of wood?)
Does the Amati kit have some virtues that aren’t obvious?
The Amati kit was released in the late 1980’s or early 1990’s. The Revell kit is a newer release.
Only in that it’s the only 1/72 VIIB U Boot kit out there. The B was one of the more numerous of th types at the beginning of the war.
IIRC, Nichimo made one in 1/200 or 1/350 30-something years ago. Also, IIRC, none survived the war, so aodel kit companies are stuck with such surviving plans as can be collected, which is why the other makes of U-Boot seem to be kitted more often.
But, I could be wrong, what with relying far too much upon fickle memory.
The modeler on Modelwarships, Jeff Herne, praised the hull shape as being very accurate.
Everything about it, i.e. the fitting of the brass upper hull plates, sounded very very hard to get right.
Morrison, get this right and I’ll pour you a nice Islay.
Bill
Umm…it stays afloat?
John,
My wife bought the kit for me when it first came out. At the time, it was the only 1/72 scale boat on the market. It has been sitting on the shelf ever since. It is the only 1/72 VII B on the market, although the Revell 1/225 U-99 is also a VII B with some differences in the detail and shape of the sail. That said . . .
The overall shapes in the Amati kit are quite good, and I like the challenge of making a masterpiece out of this “beefbone”. True, the centerboard of the wood framework can probably be seen through the limber holes, but it will encourage me to build a partial pressure hull around it.
Please keep in mind that the Amati kit can in no way be said to be better that the Revell kits. With that in mind, I decided to take on this challenge.
GM, I have not seen that review. I will check it out. Yes, the longitudinal pieces are too long; some of the frames are also too high. So, I have begun the appropriate measuring and trimming, which seems to me to defeat the purpose of these parts being laser cut! And, I will set up a photoshop account this evening.
Thanks!
Bill