Question on WWII flight gear..

Modeling Subjects Aircraft
1

Early morn,

I am almost done with my P-47 build and I was just curious, I have Tamiya’s WWII US Navy Pilots # 61107 and was wondering if I could get way with using these?

Ok here’s a little background, the P-47 is going to be from a state side traing unit and by looking at the reference pix I have from the particualr unit, both the Navy flight suit and the USAAFs flight suit look identical.

Head gear, mae west down to what appears to be a one piece suit… Colours veried but other than that to me they look the same at least what I am modeling at the moment and the pix that I have…

TIA

Flaps up,

Mike

Rangers Lead The Way

2

There were detail differences between AAF and USN flight gear, but in 1/48 it would be minimal to see… Since you are doing a Stateside unit it is a good possbility.

3

That’s what I thought Skit… I know there are differences in details in such, but in that scale IMHO it would be a little harder to tell…

The one photo that I have in hand can also be found in the P-47 Walk Around on page 10p, top pix… Beised the colour being a bit darker, I can see a leg pocket at the bottom of the suit near the boot.

Anywho, I think I am going to use these guys… Thanks my friend!

Flaps up,

Mike

Rangers Lead The Way

4

About the biggest difference is in the Mae West… USN-type was different than the USAAF type, but not enough to matter in 1/48th… The figure from Monogram’s TBD-1 has an excellent example of the proper Navy Mae West, although he’s not wearing a flightsuit, just khakis… It’s rather square at the top, and a bit wider, whereas the Air Corps/AAF version is rounded and narrowerwith different straps & inflation tube.

AAF Version

I painted him as an AAF pilot here:

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Screenshots/Models/P-39 GB/P-39001-Copy.jpg?t=1289584882)

You can add the pockets where you want them with tape or epoxy…

If you do the Jug pilots in the summer flight gear, it’s virturally the same as the Navy’s except for a couple pockets on the flightsuit… Leather gear, it’s the flight jackets, not a factor with the Tamiya figs… Navy jackets had dark fur collar that the Army’s A-2 lacked.

5

Even with the mae west I think there was a little variation in the USN

6

Sure, but not enough to really matter in that scale with those figures… The Tamiya guys can jump ship and join the AAF pretty easily…

I collect WW2 flight gear and have examples of both Navy and Army gear, and the differences are minimal in temperate flight gear… The High-Altitude and Winter stuff is another story…

7

Howdy Hans,

Thank you very much my friend… I knew there were some differents in their flight suits but in that scale, I could not really see them…

So I am off to build me some airmen lol Thanks again!

Flaps up,

Mike

Rangers Lead The Way

8

A way of introducing a little variety with a group of figures like the Tamiya set, is to paint a couple of figures with A-14 cloth helmets and a couple leather A-11s… The cut’s the same, as are the headsets…

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Support Equipment/th_A-14helmet.jpg?t=1289623845)

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Support Equipment/th_A-11helmet.jpg?t=1289623845)

9

Mmmmm your onto something there…!! I am thinking of having the student pilots with the A-14’s and the instructor(being a well weathered chap) wearing the A-11…

As for the uniforms themselves… From what Tamiya calls out is XF-49 Khaki… Could I get away with a shade of tan or there abouts?

Some colour photos I have of a family friend that flew during the war suit looks to be more on the tanish side(knowing through time is wear n tear)

Thanks again Hans!!

Flaps up,

Mike

Rangers Lead The Way

10

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Support Equipment/USN-AAFsummerflightsuits.jpg?t=1289627047)

By all means… If your instructor is gonna be an “Old Salt” those tan zoom-bags of the AAF washed out almost to white where the straps from the chute and seat harness rubbed… But I think it’s too much for that scale, so yeah, go with a tan… My P-400 pilot up there is painted with Testor’s # 1170 (the 1/4 oz bottles)Light Tan overall, which was then lightened or darkened as needed with black or white for shadows/highlights… I also used Testor’s Model Master “Radome Tan” ( #1709-FS 33613) for drybrushing some highlights… I also use Radome Tan for basic flesh color, in case you wanna know…

Tamiya’s “Khaki”, while okay for web-gear, leggins, and other US Army “canvas stuff”, is way too dark for AAFsummer flightsuits… Not much fun to brush-paint with either, unless you prime the figures, which is something I avoid like the plague in 1/48th figure painting, unless the plastic is just too darn dark (like the Black styrene of the Monogram P-61 kit or Dark blue of their Navy aircraft kits)…

11

GI Khaki is like GI Olive Green or OD… if you wore the Jungle FAtigues ( AKA OG 107s) during your time in the Rangers you know what I mean.[;)] Have a squad in them and you will have the exact same uniform in several different shades, none quite alike. And all fade quickly from washing, wear, and sunlight.

12

Yeah, I think most people get confused with the “Khaki as a Color” issue especially for WW2-era uniforms. Khaki was actually the name for the material, a khaki-cotton twill that was actually a “mud” color…

The Army called this “Khaki”, even though it was the standard-issue OD shirt for enlisted…

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/WW2 Uniforms/us_uni_khaki_shirt_WW2.jpg?t=1289717662)

And this was the Officer’s Khaki shirt-color, which is more a “Chocolate Brown”. The actual uniform called “Pinks & Greens” consisted of the tan shirt & tie and trousers with the dark green jacket… The tan color DID have a pinkish hue to it in sunlight, hence the name…

The shirt below is probably the closest match to Tamiya’s Khaki Drab XF-51…

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/WW2 Uniforms/us_uni_khaki_off_shirt_WW2.jpg?t=1289717997)

Pinks & Greens:

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Support Equipment/PinksnGreens.jpg?t=1289719715)

I know this is beyond the scope of the original question, but I was bored, just watching some paint dry…

So, to summarize the “Khaki Question”…

WWII U.S. military uniforms and gear were NOT khaki.
There was but one uniform used in WWII that was khaki- the summer service uniform… No other uniforms or field gear, not M41 field jackets, tanker jackets, cartridge belts, haversacks, wool shirts or trousers, musette bags- not even the mighty M1942 paratrooper jump uniforms were khaki. NONE OF THEM… They were “OD”, short for “Olive Drab”. This is indisputable historical fact, documented and easily demonstrated. The quartermaster corps, the War Department, the Army, the Air Corps, and even the soliders refer this stuff as “OD” in official correspondence, supply catalogs, manufacturing specifications as well as first person accounts of the War…

13

True, but that OD shade was alot more tan and/or brown than what most modelers think of OD. I know its not an official term, but much of the stuff was a more Khaki Olive shade. And the olive hue disappeared over time with the usual ageing processes.

14

Talk about an opportune thread … I was pondering the other day the colors for the USN flight crew and ground crew for my TBM-1MC and whether or not a a careful paint job could convert modern Preiser German ground crew into some of the required personnel. I think it’s going to work since we’re talking 1/144. The seated pilot figure will be coming from OzMods.

15

I probably shoulda pointed out that there are several “Official” shades of OD, Stik… During WW2, they ranged from shades with names like OD No. 3 to OD No. 7 for uniforms and equipment… Plus, you had “shading” happen, which is basically color-changes cuased by different fabrics with different dyes coming from different manufacturers… There was a “standard”, or Mil-Spec that contractors had to meet, but if it didn’t happen, it didn’t matter… There was a war on, so a lot of things that would have been rejected during peace-time were accepted anyawy…

16

I know… I used to work at a surplus store as a kid decades ago and saw lots of WWII gear and clothing (this was back before the reenactors santched up all the gear). I bought up a bit of it for my personal collection…[;)]

17

The Air Force also wore khakis as my dad wore these same shirts in the 50’s.

18

Heh, yeah… Academy Surplus in Austin was a good supplier for me back in the early 80s for US WW2 web gear… They didn’t know what they had… Got several M-1927 cartridge belts, suspenders, M-1910 canteen covers, first-aid pouch, and M-1928 pack and T-handle E-tool w/carrier, all for around 40.00… Although I’ve seen some really good repros, they’re still obviously repros when you set the real deal next to 'em…