question about US machine guns...

Modeling Subjects Dioramas
1

Tamiya has a machine gun crew using a watercooled machinegun but after the very beginning of the war was it used much?

I remember movies that showed it mainly in a defensive position in sand bagged bunkers etc. hmmm, I think I might set mine in a Pacific Island bunker {Guadalcanal comes to mind}

but I digress, In my M 10 diorama it was mentioned that I might want to add a machine gun crew or two. I have one aircooled 30 from the Tamiya jeep/figures at rest group and don’t really want to buy another kit just for the 30, plus it would be nice to get men in a better position.

Also, does anyone make 30 cal. air cooled machine gun figures in 1/35? I would think {watching band of bros, amoung others} that they would more likely lay down to fire and not squating behind the gun { the Tamiya water cooled men}, a position I would NEVER want to be in under fire, too akward, I understand bracing the tripod, still you seem to be a nice TARGET, not as bad as the German one where the guy hangs onto the bipod while the gunner stands, kneels or whatever BEHIND the other guy. I mean what did he do to get THAT job, [yuck]

[sigh] I have so many ideas for dioramas, IF I could only move them from my mind to the finished project[BH]

2

Dostacos,

Watercooled machine guns were used even in Korean conflict in 1950’s.

DML/Dragon has a set of US Weapon’s team with 30 cal machine gun crew.

Good luck with your build!

3

I think it’s kind of up to you to decide what the weapons would be. Defensive, offensive, light or armor. Could be a BAR; could be a .50. My own personal fav is the Russian Maxim in the little trolley wheels w/ screen.

I once saw a demonstration where a Marine Gunnery Seargent shot a water cooled .50 at a ballistic angle and the balls “fell” right on target a mile away!

4

oh no doubt the water cooled was a fine weapon, but I think they did not carry them around very much. I have a pair of water cooled 30s in 1/48 and plan on sand bagging them as a defensive position around my tower for my P40s taking off {group build with my son, they asked no odds}

5

Dostocos

Academy makes a nice machine gun set. Gives you the 30s and 50s, different barrel combos, tripods, different vehicle mounts and different ammo cans. I always keep on on hand

http://www.modelrectifier.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1362

Rounds Complete!!

6

thanks redleg12, I will be putting that on my “need” list, I have been going through my guys, and most will need major painting before arms are attached but that will also allow me to play with arms and machine guns

7

Way off-topic, but I remember the local gun shop had a couple of replicas for sale about 25 years ago at 1/2 scale, chambered for 22 long rifle.

8

[#offtopic] {that guy should ALSO be with a smilie face!}

my best friend had a client that sold MA Duces among other things, and took him out for a shoot one day… of course if I moved to another State I could own my very own[:-^]

I wonder if the guys serving or served know how much those of us that did not serve would love to play with their toys [swg]

9

I’ll bite so please don’t dump on me, anyone. I have not served in the armed forces though I’ve served in government, I’m generally in favor of keeping guns out of most peoples hands, but I do appreciate the use of force, I have owned my share of firearms, and I totally respect and admire those who have put their lives in front of weapons held in hostile hands.

Water cooled machine guns were frontline anti aircraft weapons in the USA up till World War 2. Moving them around took a squad of I’m sure at least 8 people. Until Oerlikon and Bofors came along with cannons, that would have been the primary defensive weapon.

10

there was an OLD movie about the very beginning of WWII in the Pacific and they had the watercooled machine guns in sand bagged bunkers as I understand it, they were accurate, and the barrels lasted longer as long as they kept the water full the downside was the weight, and the need for water

11

The last couple minutes of “From Here To Eternity” come to mind, but I’d bet you are thinking about Wake Island.

12

YEP that sounds about right. I think I will need to netflix it

13

Yes…we know.

It’s worse in my position…after 20 years of smelling muzzle blast…now its gone.

Guess its better to love and lost then to never love at all!. I miss it.

Rounds Complete!!

14

Photos show the water cooled .30 in use during the Ardennes combat and into Germany in 1945.

15

Crewed an M2 as gunner in the early '70’s. That was a beast to lug around but brother when you started putting lead downrange everybody took notice. Manned one fixed aboard ship during the last days in April '75. Nice not to have to carry the darn thing. Carried an M60 for a while…'nough said 'bought that.

Watercooled weapons are in a word HEAVY!! they are more suited to static positions. lots of sustained fire, without the fear of overheating to a certain extent. Aircooled are easier to transport thereby more suitable to a war of movement. Short bursts, etc. the old .30 was good for this as it came in a variety of flavors suited to it’s intended use.

Ammo is HEAVY also…thats the drawback to crewing one of these, feeding the beast is an onerous task. I hated lugging ammo cans, cumbersome and you never have quite enough…

16

[:-,]Where else are you gonna get paid to work out, shoot automatic weapons, blow things up, and parachute out of perfectly good airplanes? Yes, service has it’s downside on occasion, but you get to do things you cant do aywhere else, or pay top dollar to do, and get paid to do them…

17

Two things happened, really. The Army adopted the M1919 to replace the water-cooled M1917; then the tactics of maneuver warfare made emplaced machine guns a distinct rarity. Which did not stop the issue of water-cooled MGs, the Tables of Organization for many US military forces kept changing faster than the supply system could react.

Couple. Collector’s Brass makes some very spiffy lost-wax cast MG’s and parts.

Well now, I’ve always suspected that the Tamiya “pose” was taken from a pre-war photo of soldiers training up on a range at Ft Riley. It’s also good to remember that you are supposed to, by doctrine, place your MGs so that they create “beaten areas.” You are not supposed to be in “direct fire,” as that means the enemy is too close. The idea is that you set up the tripod, brace it with sandbags, then get out the firing table, and plot some places where you want rounds to fall on the bad guys so that they pick another, harder path to engage you (or mend their evil ways and go home). Would not be uncommon to set up “fires” with your MG that are 900-1200m out. MG gunner is not much of a target for a rifleman 1/2-1mile away as is, with MG rounds falling about him, even less so.

Well, the German infantry organized differently than everybody else in WWII. Instead of having 8-13 guys carrying rifles with a couple of MGs supporting them, the Germans did the reverse. Their infantry companies were (doctrinally at least) all set up as MG squads with riflemen in support (and humping ammo cans). Which means, in the assault, you can have situations where you need a base of fire Now, not later. So, the A-gunner (assistant MG gunner is soooo long to type) gets the joy of not only carrying an ammo can, the spare barrels, and his rifle, but also gets to be the “snap” emplacement, too . . .

T.J. Mullins has written that he did a similar thing while an M-60 gunner in Viet Nam, in that case because of being in tall grass (drop prone and have no visible target to aim towards, oops).

Always thought the Tamiya kit would be fun to set up as a dio of a machine gun range. That, if only for being able to juxtapose a number of figures uniquely. Only real problem would be the great huge monud of expended brass to do it right . . .