I have a diecast car plastic collector case that I am using to make a diorama of a T 72 in Kuwait. I have asked in the armor forum what to make the ground out of. I had used celluclay in the past with poor results. My bases warped, the celluclay came loose, Etc… The advice I got was to add white glue and my problems would be solved. I masked off the edges of the base. Mixed the celluclay with Tacky glue(the art store said it would work better). Applied it 1/8th thick and added the track marks. Looked great! Left it to dry in the garage and came back in the morning to find it had indeed dried. However it lifted from the base and warped. It would have looked great as an ocean swell. Help!!! Is there a better alternative to celluclay or did I again not correctly use the celluclay?
Thanks, Greg.
The problem is your base. Make sure you use At least a 1/2 inch thick base, prefereably MDF wood. Before you even touch the celluclay, Put a seal coat ( i forgot what its called) on the wood. When it dry, you can add the celluclay. Try having less water in the mixture, add a couple of drops of white glue and one drop of dishwashing soap. Then spread it onto the base.
so the main problems could be: Not thick enough base, base not sealed properly, too much water in mixture.
This should help, if it doesnt let me know.
Also, drill a few holes on the base and press the misture down into it. The mixture should have the texture of thick oatmeal when ready.
As to what you have now, try laying some white glue along the edges and lay a heavy book on top. Maybe that will help hold it down.
Also, try letting it dry in a drier environment than a garage. I keep mine under an incandescent light to help it along.
The base is black plastic. I was hoping that would solve some problems with the base warping. Now the base is fine, the celluclay detached and warped like an ocean swell. I added about 25% glue to the mixture thinking it would help adhere to the base. Maybe I should epoxie the base then apply the celluclay while the epoxie is wet?
I would try to glue the dried celluclay down but it is warped real bad (like a potato chip) and I don’t think it will work. Greg
Plastic is the problem. There’s no bite. It’s like trying to build a model using Elmers Glue. You might try supergluing the celluclay but I’m not sure even this would work.
Hi, to keep you base from warping go to the hardware store or a box store (Wal-Mart type) and get a can of POLYURATHANE, if you can, get the one that says SPAR Varnish, the plain polyurathane will be fine but… the spar varnish type is made for wood on a boat, either way it will take care of your “warping” problem. Oh, one more thing, do not get the water based kind, get the oil based, u will need to get a bottle or can of paint thinner to clean your brush after your done, if you want the brush that is. This is in the hope that you will get a wooden base.
Be good & have FUN,
Bill
I’ve also had crappy success with Celluclay, tried it a couple of times, both thin and real thick results. Wood was my base, and although the wood didn’t work, it dried and popped right off the base. So that’s the last time I used that stuff, waste of money. Get yerself a box of sanded tile grout and use that for groundwork. Pour it onto your base (if you’re using a plastic base, take some real rough sandpaper and rough up the surface, this will give a tooth for the grout to stick to.)
Start adding some white glue/water mix to the grout (add some dishsoap if it beads up) Once soaked, wait a little while until it starts to harden, then you can add your tank tracks into the ground, even add some rail ballast to give a rocky surface.
I’ve used this stuff the last several dios I’ve done with no problem at all. It’s been used on shiny laminated surfaces, and has not once chipped or come apart from the base.
Humm, tile grout. Now thats a thought, thanks. Greg.
Take a drill and put about 10 holes in your plastic base - particularly about a 1/4" in from the four corners. Then, put 10 flat-head screws in the holes and torque them down until the heads are about 1/8" above the surface. Now, when you pack the celluclay around the screws and up to just above the level of the screw heads, it will “bite” around the screws and shouldn’t lift. Also, your celluclay should be only as wet as necessary to mold.
[:0],Foster7155, I like that idea! Makes a ton of sense, so simple it’s gotta work. Thankyou, I will add that to my inventory.
The reaon that celuclay curls is that one side is drying faster than the other. As it contracts it pulls the dried layer inward and pop up comes the edge. Thin layers are the way to go as they will dry a little more evenly. All ground contours can be made with foam, either insulation styrofoam or florist foam (that green stuff you see in the craft store that people put dried flower arrangements in) If you have areas that you want to build up and not use foam, then layer it. As each layer dried build up and feather in your next.
I mix my celuclay with a dab of elmers white glue, about 1part of plaster with 2 parts celuclay. I then add in any coloring with acrylic paint and the ground material, clay cat litter, sand, grass (made from cut up sisal fibres) detrius etc. Once this is mixed then I spoon it on my base. My bases are usualy mdf that has been primed, painted and sealed. If there are no large ground contours where I used foam I drill or score the base where the ground material will go. If the vehicle is to have tracks, I wait for the mixture to start to set up and then impress my wheels or tracks where necessary. If not for vehicle tracks then to at least show some sort of impression and give the vehicle the semblance of weight. Once this dries I can add some more paint, a little more dirt and any static grass.
Patience is the key and I spend alot of time on my ground work as it will enhance the vehicle if done properly or detract if rushed and a shoddy job is done.
Don’t look at your previous attempts as failures, but as experimenting…
I have tryed watered down PVA paint that on first to seal the base, then try the celluclay on top of that . If you are not in a hurry put two or three coats on. It worked for me.
I just use the clay with warm water, and spread it on with my hands… NEVER had a problem with celluclay at all! hmm
I would try priming your black plastic case with a plastic primer. Check your local DIY store (Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) for a spray primer specifically designed for plastic. This primer is typically used to prime plastic lawn furniture or the like. That should give enough bite for the PVA-spiked celluclay to adhere and not warp.
I recently did a shameful experiment while helping my kid with a quick Gettysburg diorama for school (featuring cheap Civil War army men). I bought an old picture frame at a thrift shop for use as the base. I intended to put the Celluclay directly on the glass in the frame, but thought better of it. Instead, I covered the glass with the roughest duct tape I could find (it was an older roll and the webbing was more prominent than usual). It worked just fine, no warping. I’m not proud of what I did, but it worked.
It occurs to me that this might be a good way to introduce impatient little kids to making dioramas: get a cheap picture frame for an instant base and use toy army men (or dinosaurs or whatever) for instant models. If the bug bites them, they’ll soon be demanding more realism and work up the patience for making real models and real bases.
This might work well for make-and-take tables at modeling shows, cub scout meetings, play dates, etc. Bring a selection of old frames, pre-made Celluclay mix, an assortment of diorama accessories, etc. You might even bring jars of dry Celluclay (with a recipe label) to give away for their next solo efforts.
Come to think of it, it was dioramas that got me interested in modeling, not the other way around. I bought my very first model (Monogram’s Wirbelwind Flakpanzer) simply because the box art showed Shep Paine’s awesome diorama. When I read his diorama instruction insert, the top of my ten-year-old head popped off and I fell in love with this hobby. This was before girls, remember. And now I’m making dioramas with my little girl. Life is good.
Here’s my recipe for Celluclay ground work:
To make one cup of Celluclay mixture I combine the following: one cup dry Celluclay, 1/2 cup water (containing three drops of window cleaner for a wetting agent, as recommended by Shep Paine), and two tablespoons white glue. I mixed all of the stuff in a food processor. The resulting texture was excellent. You will want to start with less water than I did (maybe 1/3 cup) and add a tablespoon at a time as necessary until you get the texture you want.
After the groundwork was on the base (and still moist), I brushed on some thinned white glue and then sifted static grass onto the ground (I was making a meadow). I mention this because I suspect it’s the reason that the 1/4-thick groundwork did not dry overnight. The next morning I had to bake the whole thing in the oven (the picture frame with Celluclay, but no army men) for 20 minutes at 350F. That dried it out fine with no warping. Again, to quote what’s-her-name, “I am not proud of many of the things I’ve done in my modeling career.”
By the way, you can keep wet Celluclay for weeks in a tightly sealed plastic bag (preferably in a fridge). If it gets too dry, just add water and knead it.
I love celluclay and have used it successfully for years. On a wooden base, as the guys said, SealSealSeal it well and drill some small holes or drive in some roofing nails, leaving those big heads up about 1/8" so it has something to grab to. Very thin or very thick layers can be challenging, but not overly so.
On a plastic base (I have used the Testors’ model car cases, which fit small-medium AFVs pretty well) sand the entire surface and drill holes, as suggested, or cut-to-fit and epoxy down a piece of simple window screen (the nylon sort won’t rust) and apply the CC over it. You can get a pretty thin layer that way, but you may have to go back and work the edges a little after the thing dries. If you don’t try to feather the edges too much you’ll get better results, with thick or thin layers. I have also glued down thin edging strips with a slight inward cant, which is visually acceptable and helps hold down the edges. Use wood stips on wood bases and plastic strips on plastic bases.
Same here. I’ve never had celluclay lift off of any base, but I also haven’t used plastic for a base.
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