That particular Wiki article is a good one that has a lot of footnotes that also hold up. Please spare me the lecture, Sprue. You know I don’t just grab stuff off the net.
Panzer, no one is censoring or banning this. The OP here threw out the usual “I hate PC” stuff, but didn’t/ can’t produce anything to back up his claim. Just the usual, world going to hell stuff.
The first one seems generally pretty complimentary. No PC, no ridicule. The second one has the pictures you are looking for, Bish. Also I wouldn’t say it was complimentary in response, because MM’s dios don’t much get that since they are really sloppy. But certainly not PCish, and no ridicule.
The OP here just stirred it up, but there’s nothing, repeat nothing I see to back his rant.
I’m done here, leave this mess to the rest of you.
Political correctness is nothing more than an attack on free speech, driven by the claim that the person complaining has been offended.
It’s a means of controlling the terms of any argument, so you can shut down your opponent without actually countering his argument. You simply say that you’re offended, and convince everyone else that the content you don’t like must be suppressed.
It’s one step up from ad hominem attacks, in terms of conducting an argument (By “argument”, I mean, “reasoned debate to prove or disprove a point”, not the vernacular, “shouting match”). If you can’t defend your position with logic, you just call your opponent a name, and that’s that.
PC comments in modeling… have I experienced any myself on any builds? No. And I build stuff from any nation and armed service that interests me. Have I heard any comments at any clubs or contests that I attended? Well the closest thing that I have heard was a youngster asking if some nude nose art was appropriate. I explained to him that if the real aircraft displayed that artwork, yes it was because us modelers like to represent reality in miniature accurately. And that made sense to him. I think as a whole us modelers understand that concept quite well. It’s the rest of folks who see our work that may not get that concept.
Getting back on to WWII, just have a look at international relations today between Japan, China, and Korea. Both China and Korea are quite vociferous towards Japan regarding Japanese conduct in those countries during and before the war. Study of history there shows that Imperial Japan did horrible things there as national policy, and to this day remains reluctant to speak honestly about those deeds. Yet, there is minimal outcry regarding the rising sun banner under which those actions were perpetrated. And Chinese & Korean model companies will turn out oodles of WWII German subject kits: land sea, and air. While only a small handful of Japanese subjects are put forth by those same companies. Bad feelings still run deep there.
Ye, that first link is the one i found. And i concur, this seems to be somthing about nothing. And there is nothing i hate more than the PC brigade. If it was there i would have seen it. And if it was here, i would certainly have been the victim of it.
Of coiurse, much the same can be said about many nations. The UK is cerainly good at white washing our history, which certainly has a lot not to be proud of.
But i am sure we can all find things we find offensive or don’t approve of. I have seen some posts/threads on here i take issue with. But, given the nature of the forum, i simply take the option of stayuing out of them. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to look, thats the way i see it.
Bish, aside from Iceland, I really can’t think of any nation that does not have some blood on their hands from the past. Boiled down, it’s simply human nature to be violent with one another and enforce our will. Otherwise we as a species would have perished long ago. The big difference between the past and now is that now we have weaponry that can eliminate our entire species. The planet would survive, and some other life form likely evolve over time to become dominant. But we would be gone.
One thing that always seems to get left out, or forgotten from, these discussions of offense and political correctness is the idea of context. Context is very important. I recently had a discussion with my girlfriend about whether or not to put swastikas on the tails of Luftwaffe models. We both determined that historical accuracy was more important so I ordered a third-party decal sheet. So, I’ll have swastikas on my airplanes, and it’s on the cover of my copy of “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,” but I in no way condone what the Nazis did nor do I find anything admirable about their policies. For me, in context, the decals belong on the models but what they represent belongs nowhere else in my life.
I have similar feelings about the confederate flag. It belongs in museums and on historical models, but governmental entities shouldn’t be flying it. As for individuals, there are First Amendment considerations I don’t want to delve into at the moment. I’m a bit of a Constitutional Law geek so I could go on for far longer than many of you would want to read.
Anyway, context is important. Too important to leave out of the discussion.
As for me, when doing a model, I really don’t look at the PC aspect of the model. If it interests me or hits a nerve just right, I’ll bring it home and work on it.
What does agrivate me though, are the model companies or stores bowing and scraping to be PC when ever a wave is created and pulling kits from the market. ie. wally pulling the General Lee kits.
I can understand it if there is a law in a country that prohibits certain aspects of a model or kit on the market, and that is another issue altogether, and not one for here, but for residents of that country to work out.
One of the beauties of the rights of free speech is the freedom to get up in the morning, tie your shoelaces from both shoes together, and try to walk.
That, was all about not offending customers, not being PC IMO. Those kits came back, which I think is even funnier.
Being from Viking stock, their hands aren’t pristine either. It’s interesting how these dicsussions evolve.
I’ve never experienced what the OP asked. The idea of “PC” is that we don’t offend anyone. But it’s interesting how offended people are by the concept of “PC”; people who expect others to be more thick skinned about offenses are very thin skinned about challenges to their right to offend.
Maybe we can all agree that the OP tossed the Mars bar in the swimming pool?
I’m also one who doesn’t get much positive out of German WW2 subjects, but to each his own. I decided at one point to really get it out of my system and build something unequivocably Nazi.
CC, we are all well aware of the Vikings and their deeds. My point regarding Iceland was that it is one of the few areas in the world colonized and settled by folks that did not already have a native population that would become subjugated or worse. Their own history as a nation does not have the sort of past that most other nations of the world do. All the countries today in the Western Hemisphere had native populations that would see their own societies turned upside down with the arrival of European colonization over the 16th 17th 18th and 19th Centuries.
GM, if you look at the profile of the original poster for this thread, if it is truthful, he is a youngster, and this may have been a legit posting. Ot it could indeed be somebody stirring the pot.
But to me, this is an intersting discussion topic, the way it can meander around and raise all sorts of points.
Great points, well taken. I think it’s important to be able to say or express something controversial, but be open to explanations of why you’re wrong.
As to Iceland, I recall reading a book by Farley Mowat about evidence of a preexisting population in Iceland. They originated in the Shetlands, and were pushed accross the Atlantic my Viking expansion. I read this almost 20 years ago. It was The Farfarers.
Fascinating. I had never read or heard of such before. But then again I am not well versed on Icelandic history. I was under the impression that the island was uninhabited when it was settled by the Vikings. And another tidbit of information being that Iceland and Greenland naming as islands were a bit of disinformation by the Vikings. Anybody seeking Greenland off of Viking information would find only a frozen island wasteland and that Iceland would not sound tempting to those some folks.
I happened upon the book on a rainy weekend at my in-law’s cottage. It was a pretty good read. He wrote it as half narrative and half historical; the narrative sections were followed by his evidence.
What i meant for this tread was to discuss any cases of modellers or non modellers being offended by the creations of the community. Sadly this thread quickly became a little more heated than the average thread of the site. History should be told truthfully and honestly and creators should not feel boundaries based on the nature of the content. If you deny history the proper exposer it will slowly be forgotten. I apologize for lighting this powder keg but what is this site for than to discuss and share perspectives and ideas.
