Perfection in Ship Models . What does it Mean ?

Modeling Subjects Ships
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No , this will not be a tirade .

I was looking at a fine model of a Gleaves class ship on the site . Beautifully done , I might add . As well as a builder’s first “Steel Navy” model . Okay now , this is my question . With many out there who like to weather and age , and those who don’t .Which look achieves perfection in the world of models ?

You may say , Well , it should look pristine and just like it was built . Then the other side of the coin says Naw , weather the dickens out of it so it looks more realistic . Here’s a rule I go by on this . If it’s one I served on or saw while on active duty , it Will be weathered .If it’s a stock model ( many are taken from museum builds ) Then like a museum’s , if it isn’t in a Dio-rama then it gets the pristine treatment .

If it is a presentation piece it gets the pristine treatment . Now , that said , I build most of my client ship models with a little weathering and artistic license . Why ? Well , they want a model of their ship . Not , what I think she should look like !

Personally I like the wilder side of weathering . I am building a 1/96 scale U.S.S. KIDD for a client and a U.S.S. ARIZONA . Those will be museum pristine as requested . My 1/350 Fletcher of the same ship ( The KIDD ) will have her looking like she just got hit by that Kamikaze that nailed her !

Whey ? Well at 1/350 It can be said you don’t need a lot of space to tell a story .This is proof . Now , If you want to do a whole bunch of Pristine ships , Go for it .You are not wrong in you thinking or likes .

On the other hand , I like them dirty and used looking .That in itself tells a story of the hard everyday service life they had . Both are right and it’s up to you to choose your pudding .

I did a sailing ship years ago with torn sails and sailors in the rigging trying to tame them .Then there were broken rails , ladders and spars . In the world of sailing vessels this is an oddity at best . I liked it though , Why ? Well it told a side of Sailing that is very rarely depicted and it was a salute to those old - time sailors whose life and living conditions were a lot harder than any since WW 1 .

The fact is I like them either way , how about You ? T.B.

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i have had thoughts of this for a long time after looking at tons of photos i noted that the photos of us navy wwii ships always looked great and i was told that the sailors worked their fingers to the bone to keep them looking this way on the other hand the japanese wwii photos the ships all looked like rust buckets the reason i was told was lackof maint. supplies based on the photos and what i was told i base mine on that just my thoughts

joe

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Thanks Joe ;

It has been my experience that after some time away from port , no ship looks good . You should’ve seen the S.S. United States and other liners after that Trans - Atlantic trip . Pristine ? No Way !

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Arent you an original plank owner on BB-39?

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Indeed…I find that building a model into a diorama lends not only to the model but to the actions performed by the particular ship. In a small way I might be able to engage the viewer into an experience more then just a static view of a great model. Let folks see what life may have been like for said ship.

It can lend itself to dramatically enlightening the viewer to the adventure of model building all together.

Rob

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haha, GM, I hope he spits coffee on that one.

I was think Kearsarge, though (BB-5)

GM, you did just give me a good line to use on my Gunny Uncle the next time he says “when the Marines got the Phantom, we,” I will just ask him if he misses the days when they had Corsairs.

(the Marine FH-1 Phantom squadron had F4Us before they got FH-1s,and he is talking about Phantom IIs, lol)

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I weather my armor heavily.

My aircraft not as much.

My ships not at all,I like em clean.

Just my own preferences.

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Well ;

Now you see , that is right and proper too . When ships get together for a fleet excercise and there’s three or four countries doing it , they do want their ships looking ship-shape and Bristol fashion.

That means of course clean , bright as new and mean looking as ever . This is what makes ship fanciers of those who don’t know they are . For instance the only Russian ship I had for years was the " Moscow ". I saw her in Hong Kong .

Now the other later ones are members of my fleet . If I could only find Italian ships from WW - 2 In 1/350 I would add them to the American , French , English , German and Japanese vessels I have . They all are in various stages .Clean as new .Water-worn and damaged too .

Did you know for instance a ship coming into port after enduring a storm of large magnitude at sea is not a pretty sight ? Broken rails , boats askew and tied down , Etc . All versions tell a story . That’s as it should be .

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Tank builder is right on the fact after being at sea and going through a hurricane or a nor’easter a ship isn’t a pretty site to behold. My last ship the Abraham Lincoln when we came home from our 10 month war cruise we looked like ragged crap. I’m sure all of you folks have seen the photos of the Ghost Fleet of Ready Reserve ships. Hell when we came home our captain explicitly order the crew not to repaint the ship because we would be going into the dry docks soon after returning home. Needless to say when the America and the Ranger were in better looking condition than use and they had been sitting for years as past of the Ghost Fleet. Salt water and flight ops will make any ship look nasty in a matter of days.

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No ;

You got that wrong , It’s- BB1

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Oh Yeah ?

Souda .

You shoulda seen the U.S.S. OZBOURN - D.D.846 after a trip from The Phillippines to Pearl after making it through the remnants of a nasty Pacific storm . Paint ? What’s that ?

We stored some damage control timbers in a rack on deck ( 01 Level ) .When we got to Pearl even the racks braces and legs were no where to be found .HMMM. T.B.

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I have heard an explanation on why naval ships appear cleaner than commercial ones. Story goes that because it takes more men to fight a ship than to simply sail it, there are more hands for cleaning it when not in combat. Commercial ships have to limit crew size to maximize profits- only carry enough people to sail it, many fewer hands available to clean and maintain it.

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I’m sure there’s a long list of reasons.

Showing the flag.

Entertaining visiting Congresspersons.

Deep pocket maintenance budgets.

Tanks the conundrum I can’t get past is that when I consider weathering, I have to consider crew. Otherwise it’s kind of a ghost ship looking deal.

Also what DO you do with the bottom?

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In addition to maintaining their ships and aircraft, the Navy uses the nasty jobs of chipping paint, wiping down aircraft, compartment cleaning, mess cooking, and general work parties as an incentive to make rank. ie. “If you don’t like swabbing the deck, make rank and you won’t have to.”

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Amen to that. Plus, the old saying “idle hands make for trouble” so that stuff kept us busy.

Lots of personnel to keep busy, cleaning, painting, general preventative maintenance work.

EJ

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Really? Why are Navy ships kept clean?

Because dirt + standing seawater leads to rust.

Equipment that is rusty gets stuck and doesn’t work. Deckplates and bulkheads that get rusty get holes in them. Holes low let in water. Holes high let in water when the waterline has gone higher than it was supposed to go.

Look at a winch on deck. If it gets rusty, it is not going to work as you intend. And then that winch won’t make the boom, crane or davit work when it is needed.

And, in case it’s not obvious, oil leaks can lead to fires. Accumulated trash, in the wastebasket or in the corner can lead to fires. (perhaps better in these days when there is no smoking inside the ship) Besides all that “clean ship is a happy ship” noise, somebody also said a clean ship is a safe ship.

Rick

And I have stories to accompany every example above. :slight_smile:

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If it moves salute it. If it doesn’t move paint it. Seriously all deck gear, winches, booms, etc must be in shape to work all the time. As was found early in WWII too much paint is a fire hazard. So what goes on needs to be chipped off. It is hard for anyone who has never been to sea to understand what ordinary wave action does,let alone a serious storm. On any large ship you are always going to find some area in red lead being repainted. I’ll bet that is true even on a ship fresh from the yards. I know it was for the ship I was on because there were just too many jobs that needed to be done and too little time. Probably the only ship that is in absolutely perfect shape is a builders model such as those in the maritime museums.

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The only time a ship’s underwater hull is really pristine, is in the builder’s yard just before the ship is launched. Dry docked availabilities will spruce it up from time to time, but it will eventually be a loosing battle. The sea will eventually beat steel every time.

Modeling a ship is a challenge because there’s always going to be the problem of “showing the ship as it really is,” vs. " putting so much weathering on the model that it distracts the viewer from actually ‘seeing the ship.’"

Donald McNarry addressed this in his book “Ship Modeling in Miniature.” McNarry said that if he actually depicted a sailing merchant ship with the decks chock-a-block with gear, livestock, chicken coops, etc., it would be too much of a distraction from the ship itself.

I’m currently struggling with weathering on a model that every so often as I work on it, the weathering looks less like wear and tear and more like a bad paint job.

I guess there’s no real answer. If the model is being built on a commission, then I guess it should be what the customer wants. If it is just for the modeler, do it which ever way you’d like it. But in any project, the builder should have some consideration for his possible audience. If the model will be displayed with others just for fellow modelers that’s one thing. If one’s spouse will allow it in the living room to be seen by non-modeler visitors to the home, perhaps a slightly different approach is required.

In any case, keep it fun.

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From my experience while I was active duty is the sea will do all she can to either kill you or make your journey impossible at times. I got sent TAD to the Nimitz to bring her around the Cape from the East coast to her homeport of the West coast. During that little trip around the Cape we lost one of our MK-116 RAM launchers. The seas just took it one night during high winds and heavy seas, it looked like someone had undone the bolts for it to be replaced. Needless to say there was an investigation which concluded that it was a rouge wave that took it, but during the investigation we got so tired of the constant question we started telling the inquiry that the penguins took it.

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Thereby forever changing the balance of power at the Pole.