Panther A and Panter D

Modeling Subjects Armor
1

What is the big difference between the panther A and D. And if so are there conversion kits for them.

Thanks

2

conversion kits for a A or D? what are you after?
the Ausf D was the first then it was the Ausf A early and then A late. then it went on to the Ausf G
theres a kit for most of the Panther conversions so if you say, i could point you in the right direction

Added
you could try these sites for the different features of the As and Ds
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm#panther
http://www.panzerv-panther.fsnet.co.uk/
http://www.panzerv-panther.fsnet.co.uk/gallery.html

3

Great sites, Caveman. Ever run across an A with smooth diamond pattern Zimmerit? I posted this before, but I got Velinden’s Zimmerit and cannot find even one example of that type of Zimm. It looks like the tiled pattern, but diamond shape- does not have the combed look.

4

You could try these sites
http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/strony_www/panther_galeria.htm
For the zimmerit
Jwest you could go with the diamond shape as the early Panthers had the zimmeret applied in the field to what ever way the troops liked. I’ll have a look for some photos of a Panther in the diamond zimmerit in my books
Here’s a site for zimmerit http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/e/27b.html

5

Thanks. I hate to waste $18 on Zimm and throw it in the drawer, but I have no idea what colors or numbers to use. Isn’t it nice Verlinden went out and found the rarest Zimm pattern out there and made it, complete without instructions or any pics. Even a grainy black and white would have helped!

6

OOOOOO! OOOOOOO! Does this one look like it may have a diamond pattern??? I can’t tell if it is the pic, my eyes or it really does!
http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/panzers/1_panther/033_panther.jpg
Of course I can’t tell if it is just dirty dunkelgelb, or if it has some brown or green

7

Doesn’t look like it has any zim at all but the wierd pattern carries over into the white spaces so my guess is a badly scanned/developed photo.

8

darn. After all these months looking, I am starting to see things.

9

Sorry to burst your bubble…I know how hard you’ve been searching for that Diamond Zim pic as evidence…

I say use it anyway, you’ve already bought it and who cares if it’s 100% accurate…it can always serve as a conversation starter. [:D]

10

That’s what I probably will do, but I shelved it for a while just in case. Someone once said they had a bunch of Panther Books (they had roman numerals I-V) and saw a diamond pattern there. They said they would get me the volume and then I never saw them on the board again. Perhaps Verlinden eliminated them to keep their secret safe?

11

ive found the diamond zimm, but its on a bergpanther, it would have been a normal panther before it was converted
ill post the piccy later

12

Thanks.

13

Back to Abe’s question, one of the big differences between a D and an A is the cupola on the turret. Both the D and the early A had the “letterbox” type mg port on the right side of the front hull. The late A had a kubelblende instead of the letterbox and had a tripple exhaust pipe on one side rather than a single. (The extra two pipes were cooling pipes. I have no idea why one side would be hotter than the other and therefore need extra cooling!)

Dragon makes nice a nice D, early A, and late A (including an anniversary edition with a turned aluminum barrel), as well as a G with infared optics. Tamiya makes beautiful early, late and steel wheel G’s, but stay away from their A. It’s VERY inaccurate.

14

Thanks I have the dml normady addition, would it fit on the eastern front?

Thanks

15

yeah it will fit into the eastern front

16

Other differences:

Early D doesn’t have the “eyebrow” over the binocular sight ports in the mantlet. The D has roadwheels with less outer rim bolts than the A. the A and D also will have different tracks. The early D will have a communication port on the left side and pistol ports on both sides of the turret, the early A has only the pistol ports. The late A production discontinued the pistol port. Some late A’s have the monoculor sight and consequently have only one hole in the mantlet.
The early D drivers hatch exterior grab handles are located in the center of the hatch, on the early mid and late A they are outboard. The early D has a fifteen ton jack mounted under the exhaust stacks, the early A has a heavier jack transversely mounted under the stacks, the late A has the jack between the stacks. The D and A drive sprockets are also different (center hub). The early D will have smoke candle dischargers, deleted on all other Panthers. Some early D’s had dual headlamps. The early D letter box armored cover is different in that it has a bulge. Early D’s can also have a long stowage box on the right hull sponson directly behind the pioneer tools. Early D models had raised brackets over the rear air intakes to mount stowage boxes, not seen on the A. As for the exhaust cooling pipe, or triple exhaust, most early A models did not have this. Complicating this further, there were many D’s retrofitted in the field with the A model cast cupola. You can spot these if you can make out the bolt pattern on the roadwheels.

I don’t know about conversions, but you can do what I’m doing and build a collection of all variants, I’ve gone with the DML kits has they exhibit the most variety. If you order the Eduard and Aber deluxe PE kits, they provide all the conversions and Aber provides an excellent instruction manual detailing what goes where on the A and the D.

Good Luck with your Panther project!

steve

17

Thanks for the great links Jon.
mark956

18

Thanks for the info guys. once more question… what about the zim…these eastern front panthers had zim didnt they?

19

Crockett: Don’t forget the early, early Ds (about a dozen) with 60mm front armor as opposed to the 80mm of all later variants! [:D]

20

I knew I forgot something, thanks Derek!