Two points if I may.
First -at least- in the US Navy an officer who is given command of a ship is automatically given the honorary title of Captain even if his actual rank is Lieutenant or even Ensign.
Second the sea is not kind to ships, particularily paint. Between the salt water, wind, and sun light any gloss paint will quickly fade to dull matt flat appearance. If they were available gloss paints would have been a waste of money to apply to anything other than minor decorations.
I wholly concur with Force9’s summary. In fact, there were many brutal Captains throughout that era; it would be interesting to compare Bligh’s discipline logs with those of other Captains. However, it should be noted that Bligh did suffer at least two mutinies, the one of the Bounty and another when he was Governor in Australia.
Bill
When I was working on my little model of the Bounty (that was almost 40 years ago - beware), I read everything about the mutiny that I could get my hands on. I think it’s a fascinating study of human relations, sociology, and psychology.
Lieutenant Bligh’s disciplinary statistics have been compared to the norms in the Royal Navy at the time. Bligh ordered fewer floggings than the average, and in general showed somewhat more concern for his crew’s welfare than the rules required. Which is not to say that he was a nice, likable young man. (He was 34 at the time of the mutiny.) He was insensitive to other people’s feelings, had a short temper, and was known for his foul mouth - which in the Royal Navy was quite an accomplishment.
Cram 45 young and middle-aged men, and no women, into a 90-foot-long wooden box (or more correctly about a third of it, the rest being stuffed with equipment and provisions) for eleven months. Men who, for the most part, have grown up with all the privations and hardships of the working classes in eighteenth-century Britain. During those eleven months, sail the wood box halfway around the world (including an unsuccessful attempt to round Cape Horn). Then turn those men loose in Tahiti, where there are plenty of women, limitless free, good-tasting food, constant good, tropical weather, and virtually no rules governing amorous relationships (or anything else).
Leave those men there, with almost nothing to do, for five months, while the breadfruit goes through its dormant period and gets harvested. Then stuff them back into the wood box (with lousy food, no personal privacy, Royal Navy discipline, physically exhausting work, and no female companionship), offering them the prospect of staying cooped up in said box, with an obtuse, insensitive, foul-mouthed boss, for many more months, followed by, at best, a lifetime of misery and privation (in either the Royal Navy or working-class Britain, which was just about as bad).
The British working class endured misery and privation (by 2016 standards) because there was no prospect whatever of living any other way. The crew of the Bounty had learned that life could in fact be a whole lot better and easier. And the only thing stopping them from spending the rest of their lives in paradise was the I’ll-mannered, obtuse, self-centered jerk on the quarterdeck.
With 20-20 hindsight, it’s remarkable that so many people, from the Admiralty down to Mr. Bligh, thought it was possible that there wouldn’t be serious disciplinary trouble during that mission. If Horatio Nelson had been in command of the Bounty, I’m not at all sure he could have stopped the mutiny.
If you’re looking for a good summer read, try Dudley Pope’s The Black Ship. It’s the story of the mutiny on board the frigate HMS Hermione in the West Indies in 1797. The captain, Hugh Pigot, really was a tyrant. One night several sailors broke into his cabin, hacked him to death with their cutlasses, and threw what was left of him out one of the transom windows. Then they slaughtered most of the officers and turned the ship over to the Spanish.
Now that was a mutiny.
That is an excellent synopsis of their hardship, John. But you had me at the “no women” part.
[:^)]
I have benn given to understand that one of the best things about being “emeritus” is that you can show up whenever you want, pontificate as long as you wants, and never a single paper to grade.
Fourth stripe and immenent beaching in a few scant months may have me a tad scrufft, too.
I haven’t been given emeritus rank yet, but I’ve been given to understand that will happen as soon as fall semester starts.
I could keep my office if I wanted it, but I don’t. From my standpoint the two benefits of emeritus status are a free parking permit and library privileges.
So far, retirement is great. I suspect it’ll really start to sink in when the new semester starts - without me. As for pontification, that’s what this Forum’s for - isn’t it?
John,
Congratulations on your retirement. I am currently sitting in my classroom before my summer school classes start today wistfully dreaming of the day I retire. I will reach my 20 year point of teaching in six years after 24 in the U.S. Navy.
On to Bligh . . . Tahiti was no mystery to the Royal Navy. Nor was harsh discipline. I agree that the prospects of the voyage home, coupled with the realities of working class life in England, was unpalatable for some members of the crew, but most of the crew elected to remain with Bligh and did not participate in the mutiny.
What surprises me most about this story is the fact that Fletcher Christian, a Master’s Mate and the effective Executive Officer, was the leader of the mutineers. He led a relatively privileged life on the Bounty. Yes, he was harassed by Bligh, but that is common among RN life, even today. To the best of my knowledge, few shipboard mutinies include the officers among the mutineers. It is also interesting to note that it was the officers and members of the privileged class in New South Wales that later mutinied against Bligh when he was serving as Governor. And, Bligh had previously served as Captain of two merchant ships during the Peace of Amiens without difficulty. He also served as Captain in ten commissioned warships and as Commodore twice without mutinies. However, he was commonly referred to as, “That Bounty Bastard” during the fleet mutinies at Spithead and The Nore.
Anyway, I am still trying to wrap my head around the HMAV/HMS issue. To the best of my knowledge, Bounty was not commissioned into the RN. I’ll admit to never really looking into this, and I have always assumed that her status was similar to that of USNS ships today. Please correct me if I am wrong.
At least I have given you one last minor “paper” to grade! [*-)]
Bill
Congratulation on making Captain!
Bill
I honestly don’t know whether the eighteenth-century British Navy had official “commissioning” ceremonies for ships. The Bounty was owned by the navy, operated under navy orders, was commanded by a commissioned officer, and, so far as I know, flew the Royal Navy ensign. (In those days the red ensign, denoting a “private ship” - one not under the direct command of an admiral.) Her crew were members of the Royal Navy - not temporary employees (like the crews of transports temporarily hired by either the army or the navy). I know of no reason why she wouldn’t qualify for the H.M.S. label.
In quite a few years of reading Royal Navy documents, it’s often struck me that the abbreviation H.M.S. actually doesn’t show up often in pre-twentieth-century sources. My guess is that there was never an official directive that spelled out the use of the abbreviation. Most of the actual manuscripts I’ve looked at dated from the period 1775-1783. “His Majesty’s Ship,” and “H.M. Ship” we’re common - as were “H.M. Frigate,” “H.M.Sloop,” etc. (One I remember in particular was a letter from Sir George Rodney to the Admiralty, describing how two "vessels belonging to his Majesty’s Rebellious and Piratical Subjects Armed for War [i.e., either American privateers or warships of the Continental Navy] had, in some harbor in the West Indies, “pointed their guns into his Majesty’s sloop the Rover.” Rodney responded by sending a couple of “his Majesty’s ships” to “chastise them for their Insolence.”
(A 1970s grad student copying documents in the National Maritime Museum - in longhand, in pencil, on 5x7 note cards - got accustomed to some odd uses of capital letters.)
Anyway, in my mind both “H.M.S. Bounty” and “H.M.A.V. Bounty” are perfectly ok.
This thread, which started out as a discussion of paint finishes for sailing ship models, has now descended to the trivial - and that’s mostly my fault.
John,
Trivial can be fun!
On to the point of this thread . . . So, what do the rest of you think of using railroad colors for sailing ship finishes?
Bill
Bill, thats a question that I see several answers to.
Railroad colors were my first experience with acrylic paints in the hobby. The Polly Scale Line. I’m operating from memory here which gets increasingly risky. I liked those immediately, because they dry nice and flat, little to no odor.
The colors themselves are usually pretty devoid of a lot of chroma, all sort of medium value. Whether by accident or design, they seem to work well on subjects that by their nature are intended to appear to be outdoors in the sun.
The above two attributes certainly fit ship modeling.
Where i’ve never had much success- is white in anything other than what used to be referred to as enamels, i.e. solvent thinned paint. But mix and match.
The ochre on my Victory was done using a secret brew which i’d share if i could remember it. Something like 1 part Reefer Orange to 4 parts Santa Fe Yellow.
Which looks great to me but is apparently proven wrong…
My favorites include Steam Power Black, Grimy Black, Concrete and Depot Buff.
Nothing wrong with it whatever. Lots of colors with railroad-sounding names are fine for ship models. Union Pacific Yellow is a bright yellow ochre. Caboose Red is a bright, pure red. Grimy Black is an excellent color for fittings. Conrail Green, with some weathering applied, looks remarkably like oxidized copper. Etc. etc., etc. And I’ve never found a color that beats PolyScale Aged Concrete for bare wood decks on twentieth-century warships.(Fortunately Vallejo is now producing a match for that color.)
So many hobby paints are on the market nowadays that the newcomer can get bewildered by them. The best solution is to visit a good hobby shop and pick your colors for yourself. (There are few paints specifically mixed for sailing ships, but don’t worry. If it’s labeled Schwarzgrau, Grimy Black, or Weathered Black, and it looks right for what you’re going to paint, buy it.)
I’ve never believed in dictating color choices for models. If it looks right to you, it is right.
Unfortunately, few of us live within driving distance of good hobby shops any more. So we have to rely on mail order, and that’s a little tricky. You can’t trust the colors you see on the websites.
Model Shipways does sell a line of acrylic colors designed for sailing vessels. I’ve used several of them recently, and I like them. You can order them through www.modelexpo-online.com . When the line was introduced, quite a few years ago, it picked up a bad reputation. But nowadays the company seems to be using a different formula, and the jars I’ve tried have worked fine.
One suggestion if you’re building H.M.S./H.M.A.V. Bounty. I’m convinced that the blue hull of the replica built for the 1959 movie (the one with Marlon Brando) originated in the imagination of some Hollywood art director. Lots of pictures painted since 1959 show blue hulls, but I have yet to see any contemporary evidence supporting that color scheme. I put a little blue trim on my model, but if I were (gawd forbid) doing it again I’d use nothing but black, yellow ochre, and dull red. Live and learn.
Gentlemen,
Model Master has some interesting acrylic colors that they produce for the Railroad hobby. Smoke Black, Depot Buff, Leather, Concrete, Aged White, Yellow Ochre, and Caboose Red are perhaps the most useful. I particularly like the Aged White for non-coppered lower hulls. Check them out if you can. My LHS carries a great supply.
Bill
Thank you kindly.
Was my boss’ doing as he is retiring. Ymining is suh that Congress will probably not confirm before I’m out, so the retirement will be on O-5 pay. Such is life.
That’s alright. I am on SCPO retirement pay. I made MCPO but did not wear it long enough to be paid.
Bill
Another useful color is Boxcar Brown. I’ve used it for anti-fouling color on older dreadnoughts etc. as it gives a nice aged look.
One other thing, and I apologize as this isn’t strictly related to color. I never had an airbrush all of the time I modeled railroads. These old Polly S paints, all brush really well.
