Hi guys,
I’m about 90% done with the build part of my Hasegawa Mustand in 1/32 scale. My wife likes the marking for “Ol’ Flak Joe”. Does anyone know if this was painted OD over Neutral Grey or was it the English dark green color?
Thanks for your help!
Eric
What I just read says it may be either. Since they were painted in England, it could be. I found this b&w picture The color looks dark, but is open to interpretation, obviously. Color shots on the site look to be “B’s”, so I think they would not apply.
http://aaron.smith.free.fr/PilotsPlanes/OleFlackJoe_Fricker.JPG
Eric
According to Roeder’s 357th Fighter Group, Ol Flak Joe was OD over Neutral Grey with a red rudder (it was assigned to the 363rd FS). No color call out for the rudder, but the spinner was Insignia Red (FS31136) with an Orange Yellow Band (FS33538). The checkers were the same color. Roeder’s book is a handy little book with squadron and pilot histories along with color plates of most of the FG’s a/c. It’s available from Squadron.
Thank you Wayne and Bud. I was planning on using the SuperScale sheet I got a couple of years ago. It has the markings for “Passion Wagon” from the 362nd FS and “Ol’ Flak Joe” from the 363rd FS. It says that Passion Wagon was RAF Dark Green over RAF meduim sea grey. But Ol’ Flak Joe was, according to the sheet, O.D. over neutral grey. I just wanted to verify the colors used since they were both in the 357th FG. I tried searching on line but just couldn’t fine any corroberating info; not even in my WW2 in color books.
Looks like I’m going to have to get myself Roeder’s book! [;)]
Thank you again for the info!
Eric
Buddy,
One last question, does that book indicate if Ol’ Flak Joe had any sort of European theater ID bands carried on the wings and/or tail? If so, are they white?
Thank you again,
Eric
Eric,
The one photo in the book does not show it, but then it doesn’t show much other than the nose art. The painted color plate shows a band on the wings and horizontal stabilizers and it is white. If you know someone who has To War With the Yoxford Boys, a much more in depth history of the 357th squadron, it might have some better pics. It is also available from Squadron.
8th AF theater bands on the wings and stabs were white over aircraft with OD and grey finishes, black over NMF finishes.
Eric, a shot of Frenesi, from what looks to be the same time period. It has the white stripes on top and bottom of the wing and tail plane. Doesn’t mean Ol Flak Joe had them, but it may have at some point in time.
http://aaron.smith.free.fr/PilotsPlanes/Frenesi_TomHayesCrew.JPG
Thanks Wayne,
I was thinking the same thing about the picturesw I saw of different planes from the same group. While it’s difficult (pronounced “practically impossible”) to find an overall shot of Ol’ Flak Joe, I’ve seen some other planes from its sister squadrons where they did have the white bands. I guess we’ll just have to extrapolate that they all had them.
I figured that they would all carry the theater bands. However, I saw some die cast models where they didn’t have them. I really wouldn’t putmuch faith in the accuracy of some of those die cast sets but who knows. I just couldn’t find a picture of the real thing to either support or refute the existence of the theater bands on this plane in particular. Based on the fact that directives called for theater bands, I’m going to put them on my plane.
I don’t even want to start thinking if thise plane had D-Day stripes or not. LOL!
Thanks to all for helping me talk this one through,
Eric
The thing about the invasion stripes is that you’re right either way about them. If you depict a bird without them, then later someone comes up and says, "Hey, you did that wrong. You didn’t paint the invasion stripes, and “Ol’ Widow-maker" had invasion stripes on it.”, you can reply, “Not until after June 4th… This is what it looked like at the end of May, '44…”
Also, the stripes were ordered removed from all aircraft in July of '44, so full invasion stripes are only accurate for a very short time-frame…
And I doubt very seriously they were put on as neatly as we modelers put them on. One of the things that struck me the first time I watched Band of Brothers was the invasion stripes on the C-47’s when they were taking off looked like they’d been applied with a mop. Might have been different on a smaller a/c like the P-51.
Eric,
I’d say you’re good either way. Like you said some planes had them and some didn’t. Without pics who is to say your wrong either way you go.
Eric, what I’ve been posting is what I found on the internet. I am thinking it is newer and maybe more accurate. I went looking through some reference material this afternoon to see if I could find you a picture. Reading the stuff, I have an English publication from the late 60’s, early 70’s that says the 357th painted their a/c dark green tops with a sky or sea gray medium undersurface. Another Mustang reference I have says the 357th painted the tops medium green 42 FS34092. IPMS Stockholm says this color was used in 1942 to paint blotches on O.D. Have I thrown any more mud on the bird?
This is true, there’s a picture on this site somewhere, or a link, that showed just that. Well It wasn’t a mop but it was pretty big brush and they were not staying inside the lines. Pretty sloppy job of stripes.
My dad flew Mustangs back then (55th FG)… According to him, the stripes were slapped on in a few hours during the night of the 5th… Some chiefs masked them, some free-handed them, dad didn’t remember on his particular one if it was masked or not… Guess I can’t fault him for that lapse, heh. The pilots didn’t even know about any stripes until they got to their planes that morning…
Wayne, seriously, I’m going to go to bed tonight crying into my pillow because of you. THANKS A HEAP! Ha-ha-ha! Oh wait a minute…sob, sob, sob, sob. [BH]
As for the C-47s on "Band of Brothers’, I noticed the same thing, too, and I thought it was great! I’ve never been to an airshow with WW2 planes that didn’t have razor sharp and straight invasion stripes. In fact, I once did invasion stripes on a Hasegawa Mustang using black and white decal sheets which I cut myself. In all honesty, my decals were not 100% straight and, as I moved them around on the plane, they just were not perfectly straight and I just LOVED how they turned out! They were just a tad wavey without being obviously so. What I’m trying to say is that they sort of did have that hand painted look to them and I thought they looked great. The Hasegawa decal sheet has the invasion stripes. Maybe I’ll add them on just to break up the O.D. or Dark Green or whatever the %*$&# the color was! Ya know…if they’re going to hold a war, I wish the countries could be a bit more organized!
My best to all,
Eric