I am building Hasegawa’s P-40E as an anonymous P-40 of the 11th Fighter Squadron, 343rd Fighter Group or the 28th Composite Group, both of the 11th Air Force based in the Aleutians during WWII. The problem is, I have color reference phots of P-40’s there, but am unable to discern the 6-digit tail number on any of the aircraft. I have found photos and profiles of -E’s with the familiar yellow tiger’s head on the nose, but I want to finish mine in the markings of one of their P-40’s without it. The aircraft with the yellow head have two digit squadron numbers in yellow on the tail (such as “49” or “94”), but the ones I am looking at have smaller 6-digit yellow numbers on the tail. In my references, I have found “210***” and “***315”. Unfortunately, I cannot make out the missing digits. Can anyone help me?
Frank, I will keep looking if this does not help.
Thad
Thad-
That’s EXACTLY what I was looking for! I can make out the “15563” on the tail of the one in the forreground, can you make out the numbers on any of the thers?
I played with the bright and contrast and I am sure of xx588 maybe x5588 or x8588.
Yes, it’s ‘15563’…
The image posted by KINGTHAD is a photo from my collection… you can see a higher resolution version HERE, along with several other Aleutians Hawks, including many non-11th FS ships.
Give a hollar if you have any Qs or want to see larger images…
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Thanks guys! I really appreciate the help!
Steve- Those photos are absolutely outstanding! I have been scouring over all of my references, checking out books from the library, and searching the internet for photos just like those. In the photo of the lineup, is the P-40 numbered “0597” an -E model? Also, is “15563” an -E? I am no P-40 expert, just want to do an anonymous -E.
Steve-
PM inbound!
Hey Frank,
Both of those Hawks are indeed P-40Es. The serial numbers are 40-597 and 41-5563… if you need to cross reference serials with variants in the future, you can do so HERE.
That’s a search engine for US military aircraft serial and bureau numbers from all eras. That site has been down from time to time, but it’s based on info from THIS site, so you can still research serial numbers if the search engine is down. It’ll just take a bit longer.
As to the Aleutians P-40s… I dunno how far you’re going to go in detailing this model, but if you’re inclined to make some additions, take a look at the cold-weather exhaust mods on the Hawks in those photos. I believe the Hasegawa kit includes some of the necessary pieces for this mod, although I don’t recall offhand if it’s complete, or even accurate as supplied in the kit.
Also, many Alaskan-based P-40s had ducting installed in the cockpit to pipe in heat… you can see this in the following photos:
Again, if I can be of help, give a hollar…
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Steve-
Thanks for those links on serial numbers, I have wanted to find something like that for a long time!
As for the cold-weather package P-40E’s, I had read about the filled in exhaust area, but nothing about the ducting. I am still undecided about doing the exhaust area, as I really don’t know how I would do it. Do you have any ideas? I think I may add the ducting, I think I can handle that!
Steve- Looking at the shot of “0597”, it looks like the filled-in area around the exhaust is absent. Would that be something that could be removed, and would they for any reason? Well, I didn’t want to add that detail anyway so I am goin to leave it off for this aircraft and just add the hose inside the canopy. Works for me!
Also, did these aircraft have the blue or black “U.S. ARMY” on the bottom of the wing? Or, was it missing? TIA!
Looks like ‘597’ may have been a new arrival and had not yet had the cold-weather mod(s) installed. I’m slippin’… I shoulda mentioned that earlier… d’oh!
As to the ‘U.S. ARMY’… if one goes by the ‘rules’, application of these markings should have been discontinued by the time this photo was taken. However, rules aren’t always followed and there are a number of photos showing Alaskan-based P-40s with the ‘U.S. ARMY’ under the wing… sometimes as late as 1943 and 1944.
It’s hard to tell if this particular ship has the markings or not. Foolong around a bit in Photoshop yields a bit of evidence that there is a ‘Y’ under the port wing, but it’s not entirely persuasive. If it were me, I’d put it on. But that’s just me. If you do decide to apply the markings, they should be insignia blue.
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Thanks Steve, I’m gonna go with 597 then! No exhaust mods, simple scheme, perfect! That photo of yours was exactly what I needed, thanks again! [bow]
Frank,
Maybe this post will help in my needs as well. With your permisission I would like to ask all of the P-40 fans and gen Channault’s Flying Tigers fans as well for any information on markings used during a period of October-December 1943 especially while in service in Kunming and later Hengyang.
During this period a Polish ace (Witold Urbanowicz) was fighting with Flying Tigers defending Chinese, destroyng quite a number of Japanese planes. I just recently read his book describing hi experience during this part of a WWII.
Any help is appreciated. My Eduard Special Edition P-40M/N is just waiting [:)]
Greg
Of course, I hope you are able to find the info you seek. There seems to be no limit to the knowledge possessed around here!
I surely hope so [:)]
At the same time there Don Lopez flew out there. Later after many years he (Lopez) gave an interview and mentioned incredible skills of Urbanowicz.
I hope someone knows more about those planes and will share it with me. Its like after watching a Dogfight you need to build those jugs [:)] (todays episode, after I read Urbanowicz’s book I need to build his plane (pne he may use during those days). Urbanowicz never pay too much attention on what plane he flew.
Greg
Urbanowicz was attached, according to Lopez’s book (Into the Teeth of the Tiger), to his squadron, which would be the 75th fighter squadron, 23rd FG.
Lopez’s book says Urbanowicz made a comment on Lopez’s collision with an Oscar around December 12, 1943 (Lopez’s first air combat action). So you can probably look for 75th FS markings from late 1943 or so. (In the collision, Lopez’s P-40 lost 3 feet of wing and continued flying normally while the Oscar was not so lucky. Urbanowicz called Lopez “Lopez the Destroyer,” though the collision was not intentional.)
Try this: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ehobbyland_1956_64867270
The cover of Into the Teeth of the Tiger has Lopez standing next to the nose of a P-40M, and while it doesn’t have his personal nose art “LOPE’S HOPE” written on it, it does have the exact same shark’s mouth (at least in black and white) that the decal set referenced above has. I actually just bought the set myself.
(EDIT: If you want to get really nitpicky…looking more closely at the decal set, the only difference I see between the nose markings and the cover photo from the book is that the 1943 P-40 has white eyebrows outlined in black (they are still the same shape), while the decal set, which do match exactly Lopez’s 1944 P-40N, has solid black eyebrows. Also, the squadron’s P-40 wheels have dark spokes, clean white axle tips, and clean white rims.)
Probably the most notable marking for the 75th FS is the white nose spinner; Lopez says that the three squadrons of the 23rd FG were distinguished by the nose spinner colors–red for the 74th, white for the 75th, and blue for the 76th. The colors matched the squadron call signs.
Hope that helps!
Thanks a lot Eric. Any additional info is a great help for me.
Do you remember if any of the spinner painted white and red ?
one source mentioned this plane as flown by Urbanowicz during his time with FT
The number is 188 (yellow)
Greg
Steve-
Thanks again for the “U.S. ARMY” info! I’m gonna check my decal supply and see if I have the insignia blue lettering. One last question, did these P-40E’s have the green camo spots around the perimeter of the wing and tail surfaces? Some photos of similar aircraft show it, others don’t. 597 looks like it doesn’t have it, but I am not sure.
Unfortunately, the book has only black and white photos (and not a whole lot with A/C in them), and for the most part it looks like the part of the spinner housing the prop blades matches the OD of the fuselage.
That said, it’s only the front tips that were painted white, and I’ve seen photos of other 14th Air Force P-40s with just the blade section of the spinner painted red. If the A/C was transferred from another unit they might have left that part of the spinner the way it was. I can’t say definitively whether some spinners might have been partly red or not from the book. This website: http://www.web-birds.com/14th/23/23.htm has a few photographs, though I don’t know how accurately they’ve been identified. The one of the P-40K getting its guns calibrated is attributed to the 75th FS in spring 1943, and the blade section of its spinner is definitely a different color than the fuselage. I think there’s a good chance that the 75th FS’ older P-40s had their nose tips painted white later in the year (when Lopez joined) and the blade section of the spinners may have been left as they were.
Camoflage hues are difficult to make out…however, in the background of one photo of Lopez’s P-40N (which he got in April 1944) there is part of an earlier model P-40 without the long tail of the P-40M/Ns, and I’m guessing it was a P-40K. The rudder looks like it has camoflage matching the image you posted, and there is a faint tail number that’s probably painted in yellow.
188 is a proper tail number for the 75th’s A/C, which were numbered from 150 to 199.
Sorry I haven’t got a file-sharing account to show images; I should really sign up at imageshack one of these days, though there are only a few pics in this book in any case…
I’ll let you know if I find anything else.
Eric
No, it should be plain OD over gray.
As to the Urbanowicz question, I will also try to find out what I can. I’ve done a small bit of research on his short stint with the 23rd FG in the past, and seem to recall coming up with little, but I’ll see what I can find this time 'round.
Now, as to a point which Eric pointed out… colors can be difficult to interpret from black and white photos, and one cannot always go by tonal values alone. Here’s a good example…
Albeit not 23rd FG aircraft, this photo of 25th FS, 51st FG P-40s demonstrates the difficulties involved in differentiating between colors in a black and white photo.
Look at the spinners of the ship in the foreground, and the two ships on the left in the background. Make whatever you may of these colors from this black and white image, then take a look at the original color version…
Don Downie photo (from ‘Flying the Hump’, by Ethell & Downie)
Alrighty, I’ll see what I can come up with for the 75th FS, 23rd FG. Until then, I believe that this is the photo which Eric mentioned as being on the cover of his copy of Lopez’s book…
Don Lopez collection via the NASM
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