Hey all, I’ve been seeing where alot of people use the photo etch sets for fenders, engine grill covers, and latches. Are these actually worth the big expense in the end?
What about the metal barrels, are they that much different than a well preped barrel from the kit?
I;m not even going to ask about the Friul and modelkasten tracks because I can clearly see they are superior in appearance to the rubber band like tracks.
Rastan
I personally have used the PE, and find it for the most part a waste of time and money, after you beat yourself to death forming the part CA’ing it in place - then you paint it anyway - I havn’t found many parts that you can tell the difference anyway, Now the rivet counters it means something to them, If all your going to do is build for fun I don’t believe they are necessary i Saying that you might want to get a kit that comes with PE sometime and see what you think - Your choice
Barrels I do like them but also not needed to have a good build.
Sorry didn’t mean to ramble so long just came out of the paint booth[:D]
Ken
You don’t need it to get a good build. It is good for engine grills but for everything else, a properly put together, sanded… whatever, piece will get you the same result as PE.
My opinion is it depends on what you look to accomplish and a matter of preference. If you want to really detail a kit and are a real stickler for every little detail PE is the way to go. It can be good to correct things that are not accurately molded in scale with plastic (it can work both ways, as sometimes PE parts are to thin to accurately replicate the real part). However, if those nuts and bolts detail aren’t as important, you can save your money. I do believe that PE s nice for engine screens and large items, so you can look at Eduard’s Zoom sets, which are cheaper and include just the basics. As for the barrel, if you can get the kit barrel round without seams, you will not have much use for aluminum barrels (unless you are correcting accuracy issues (the Italeri M4A1 for example has an incorrectly stepped barrel). I like them because I always seem to get my kit barrels out of round. Sometimes the aluminum barrels (like from CMK) can be more work, as the CMK barrels include resin muzzle brakes with tons of flash.
PE, resin or not is a question you need to answer before a build. The purpose of the build will dictate what you do. For fun over the weekend, no don’t waist the bucks. Want to compete or build a jam up kit, sure. Beware as stated earlier, not all PE parts are better than the plastic. Get good reference photos and compair the plastic verses the PE and choose the most accurate. Some times the PE is too thin or just not the correct demensions. If you take two different companies PE you will find the parts for the same model kit may not be the same demensions just like two different companies plastic kit parts might not be the same demensions for the same vehicle. The aluminum barrels are like PE. A good plastic barrel done well may look better depending on the complexity of the barrel but that can be a lot of work. Right now I am doing a T72 and am at the point of doing the plastic barrel with PE or using an aluminum barrel. I am going to do both and see which turns out best .
I think pe is up to the builder and what they want to accomplish. I don’t waste the money except on engine grilles. I agree that after you get it all painted, it would be minimal upgrade in most cases. I do want to order some schurzen, because it didn’t come with one of my kits, but that is for personal reasons. As for the barrel, an aluminum one would look asthetically better and would save time on cleaning up the kit barrel. Is it worth the extra $8-10? That is up to you. For the most part, I can’t warrent the extra cost. However on my latest build, I wouldn’t have minded an am barrel
Thanks for all the opinions. I think I will stay away from the PE parts except for the engine grill screens. There is a jagdpanther in a museum in London without the screens over its engine grill, so even if I didn’t add the PE parts it would still be “accurate”. Also, when I look at this tank and I look at an old jagdpanther model I did a long time ago, the Tamiya parts look pretty much Identacle to the real thing.
heres the tank:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1997/05/stuff_eng_detail_jpanther.htm
I will probably also stay away from the metal barrels too since I can get mine to look well with a bit of sanding and careful assembly, but I can seriosuly see where this could be a good addition to a model.
I will get some Friul or modellkasten track though because I feel these really add alot to the model.
I like PE for grills , and small details , like sights , MG mounts , and tie downs for tools , but for the most part , I find them too thin for heavier things like stowage racks ( I.E. IDF stowage racks on M-113’s , for instance Verlinden, or brackets for the spare track , on King Tigers , the old Eduard PE set for KT’s.) So I end up using them for templates , on plastic . I find plastic much easier to work with , and a company called " Evergreen" , makes plastic sheets , rods , strips , etc . in a variety of thicknesses , and sizes , and is available at most hobby stores. If you ruin a PE part , it may be gone for ever , but with plastic , just make a new part. I also find that when weathering a vehicle , with a " wash" , or pastels , some of the finer PE parts , tend to break off , more than the plastic fabricated parts.
Frank
“PERSEVERANCE”
I’m a big fan of moderation… I prefer using an Eduard Aluminum barrel since it takes soooo much work to make the plastic kit barrels look even remotely good. I’d rather spend that time doing something else. I love the Friul tracks, but they are pricey so I only use them on “special” builds like my Elefant and Tiger I. Photo Etch grill screens add a really nice touch and are inexpensive as well.
Bottom line, it’s up to you and what you want to get out of your models. [:)]
Tool clamps do add a bit of realism, but careful modification of the kit part can correct this. Same with aluminum barrels, care in fixing the seam and they’re unnecessary.
Fenders and skirts can be thinned and bent to look as good as PE too. Some stuff you find in Aber kits, are just plain useless.
Grill covers and other screens are essential in my opinion though.
I guess it’s a matter of how much time you and money you want to spend. Thw new Dragon kits included both PE and barrels as well as indies.
I am all alone in this, I know, but I love PE for the sake of PE. It can be frustrating, but it to me is rewarding in the end. It limits the number of builds I can finish, but who cares about that anyway. To me a model is not complete unless there is more brass than Plastic, whether it’s from a PE set or scratchbuilt. IMHO, there is no way to simulate sheet metal with steryne. People try to thin out fenders and make damage with their dremel, but in the end, it still looks like plastic. If Pe is done correctly, you can tell the difference if you seriously look and perhaps know what you are looking at. A casual observer may never know, but we all know.
There seems to be a bit of ill will towards that tend to like PE. I can only specualte as to the reasons why, so I will keep my mouth shut.
Then there are the purists that say “all you have to do is slap a set of PE on and you think you’ve done a good model” or “a true modeler would scratch build the tool clamps” or whatever. To them I say poo-poo on you [:D][:D] Anyone that has assembled an entire set of Aber PE for any model will testify that there is no “Slapping” going on. You have got to have your stuff packed tight to get then stuff to work and look good. Otherwise, you have a mess that I think discourages some from trying again on their next build. And then the discouraging words on PE begin again.
I was told by a great modeller once that PE is another step up the ladder in modelling. Much like graduating from rattle cans to an airbrush. I am not saying that PE is the top rung, but it is a very useful and productive tool in our hobby. And it’s very fun.
Plus, It’s not a “Waste” of money if it adds to the enjoyment of your hobby. This is still a very cheap hobby compared to what’s out there in terms of scale modelling. For 3 or 4 hundred dollars, you can have everything offered for a particular vehicle. Whatother hobby can say that? Wooden Ships? RC models?
As far as barrels go, ABER Rocks[:D]. Nuf said[}:)]
I suppose what I am trying to convey is that to each his own. Try it some time and if you like it, go for it, if not, then be a contented OOBer. No big deal. In the end, this ain’t real life and you’ll not get an extra day in heaven cuz you spent time on PE or saved your money and didn’t use it.
Just have fun.
Ted
Here’s an older example. My tool clamps are off, but I learned and kept going. The stuff really is fun. Plus I like Wasting Money[:D][:D]
Ted
i wouldnt go with the Jagdpanther is accurate because theres a real one in the Imperial War Museum and its not got engine screens,
Well the left side of it has 2 big holes cut out and its missing its rear hatch, top hatches and Water and Petrol caps
if you like the Jagdpanther and you havnt got one yet, Dragon do one with a Alum barrel and PE grills, but the Tamiya new kit is a better kit
Ok time for my 2 cents. I won’t go into a diatribe, cause I think Ted has summed it up very well. PE and certain aftermarket items are a step up. But, Creativity, imagination and artistic ability will set ones work apart. Thinking outside the box to come up with certain techniques that promote realism will definitely get your work noticed. And in the final analysis, quality of construction and the ability to paint the model are really the defining criteria. Let’s be honest, all the extras in the world won’t help a model if it is poorly constructed and unappealing to the eye.
I use PE and I scratchbuild, using both tools together to get what I want. Here’s a recent example: I used the kit pioneer tool heads, clipped them and drilled them, installing honed matchsticks as handles, using leftover PE tool mounts and chains etc.
Or in this case, left over PE (modified) and styrene, balsa wood and whatever to create an interior…
As you grow up in the hobby, the need for more personal exploration of your skills needs to be expressed, I think this is what keeps one interested. If the kit doesn’t offer the features you want, MAKE THEM yourself!..
LOL Steve
Like Ted, I do not think PE is a waste of money. I preferred the older sets that just enhanced the kit’s molded on detail. Recently, the various $20+ super sets on the market try to replicate almost everything they can do in PE, and some items that shouldn’t be done (like flat grab rails, etc.).
In the 1/72 scale world, the small PE sets are adding realism. Previously, head light assemblies were either molded as one piece with the guard cage or the cage was omitted. Now on several newer kits, PE is included to replicate these head light guards.
Unlike the 1/35 scale world, 1/72 scale does not have multiple brands of PE for a particular kit. Although this fact is changing for more popular kits like the Abrams, Tiger, Panther, Sherman.
As far as barrels go, I recently bought a few Aber 1/72 37mm barrels to be used on M3 Lee, M3 Stuart and M8 Greyhound kits. I don’t know why I did it, I could have probably found some piece of tubing to replicate this detail. I think I might have grabbed them out of surprise that they are available and to show manufacturers that there is a market for small scale after market accessories.
As far as time goes, I don’t think these items are a waste of time, and even if it was, it’s my time to waste. Although one could argue that our entire hobby is a waste of one’s time. Forming PE parts goes rather quickly once you are familiar with it. I learned by using a small 6" steel ruler and single edged razor blade. Now that mechanical devices are available, I use a 4" Hold & Fold and have become quite adept at forming miniature fenders, stowage boxes and hatches in very little time.
Rob, you are correct with unsing an entire set of PE. Some of the stuff is garbage, like grab handles or anything that was originally made from rod. I should have clarified my comments. Got a bit wrapped up in my rant.
Ted
BTW, Crockett, those tools are superb. I will have to copy you next time. Very well executed.
Ted
I agree with Ted and Rob. Except to me it’s just an additional set of materials in my arsenal per se. PE shouldn’t be used for everything since it does not replicate real world items properly (grab handles, hooks and other things where teer is a 3 deminsional thickness).
It’s a choice not a necessity.
As you can see, use varies among all of us. in fact, use varies with me. I have 4 kits I am working on now, a Tiger and King Tiger with PE, aluminum barrels and replacement tracks, an Elefant with only some PE zimmerit and a barrel (no other PE) and a Sherman straigh out of the box, with no extras. I switch back and forth, so if I get sick of all the details, I go to the Sherman. Really it is all going to be up to you and what you want to accomplish
O.K., I’ll be the dissenter. I don’t use PE and don’t usually buy resin aftermarket sets. I generally think they are way overpriced for what you get and the PE stes are usually way to fiddly and over-engineered. The same for aftermarket barrels. A total gimmick in my opinion. If you take your time and carefully sand the barrel, it will look great. I can make the same detail parts as PE out of plastic and metal foil. I also believe that it takes more skill to scratch and build a model the old fashioned way as opposed to short-cutting it and using PE and resin sets that someone else designed and made. I put more stock in one that is done the old fashioned way as opposed to one that has $100 bucks of PE and aftermarket resin on it. Also, you don’t need PE/aftermarket resin to be a contest winner either. My M123A1C that won TamiyaCon last year idn’t have a bit of PE or aftermarket resn on it.