I knew someone who did just that.
This is really stupid. It’s like cheating on the golf course? Cheating to yourself. What an idea.
If you actually do think about it, you should realize that the term model is absolutely accurate. The fact of the matter is that what we often refer to a “models” are in fact “kits.” It is not until we assemble and paint the kit that it can accurately be described as a model.
Ben: Have you ever been to a Japanese toy store or hobby shop? The truth is that 1/35 models are only one small niche of the large Tamiya toy conglomerate. And from what everyone says, the 1/35 models sold to markets outside of Japan are even a lesser concern than the domestic market. Supposedly, Mr. Tamiya himself still likes putting out good 1/35 kits every once in a while but we in the armor market are only a small drop in their overflowing bucket. Tamiya seems to be doing fine, especially with the resurgent Japanese economy these last few years.
And before we carve Tamiya’s grave stone, let’s all build up the gems they’ve put out recently (despite the DML, AFV Club, Tasca, Tristar, Trumpeter onslaught). Do you have any of these kits unbuilt?
Dragon Wagon or M26 ARV
SdKfz 9 FAMO w/SdAnh 116 trailer
M26 (T26E3) Pershing
M8/M20 armored car
Wespe
GMC 2.5 6x6 truck
Willys MB
Steyr 1500A car or Kommandeurwagen
Char B1 bis
Type 90 Japanese MBT
JGSDF Light Armored Vehicle
LeClerc French MBT
StuG III ausf B
While the 8.8cm Flak 36 and Universal Carrier re-pops DEFINITELY don’t excite me, to say that Tamiya is in its death throes is near-sighted, IMHO. Sure other companies are announcing great kits. That doesn’t mean that Tamiya isn’t a great company, however. Frankly, it’s good times all around IMHO. Nothing to complain about (other than not enough modelling time!)
Tamiya is still a great company, and not to beat a dead horse, it’s just that the majority of armor modelers build 1/35 and Tamiya has gone on to 1/48 for the most part. I think there is a bit of anger towards them for doing so, because most of us grew up building many of there 1/35 offerings. With all of the great stuff coming from Dragon, Trumpeter, and AFV to name a few, it’s easier to forgive and look beyond Tamiya. Just MHO.
I guess if Dragon can make some bucks from the pre-built, which they obviously think they can, and it goes towards other projects, then they got my vote. I just don’t want to see them overextend themselves and forget what got them where they are. Again, just my [2c]
Why the implied criticsm of Dragon? I number of people here have sold models that they have built. There have been a number of threads in which the work of proffessional builder, perhaps selling models on e-Bay, have been highly praised. So what’s the difference between Joe Builder buying a Dragon Elephant kit, assembling it, and selling it on e-Bay vs. Dragon assembling their kits and selling themselves?
Regarding the argument about the ethics, or rather lack of ethics, in entering a pre-built kit is no different between a model that was built by Dragon vs. one built by another individual. On that score, i would imagine assembly line jobs whether from Tamiya or Dragon would be a lot easier to spot in a contest vs something bought form an individual builder.
I myself would not be interested in a prebuilt kit, but if there is a market for it, I’m all for the people to have more choices in where they buy completed models. If nothing else, I think that any money being made by Dragon or any other kit maker, is ultimately good for the hobby. If kit makers go out of business, no new kits and the hobby suffers.
I don’t see what the big deal is. If someone buys this, its more revenue to DML, which in turn allows them more resources for even greater productions. Outside of that, they are a business, and do what any business would. If they see a market segment that they can compete in, why not do it.
And it’s not like if they were putting all their effort into that kind of model, they just offer their already existing kit in another form.
It’s also more money to the LHS which can remain solvent that much longer so we don’t have to wait to need a dozen bottles of paint to amortize the shipping costs.
I have to agree with those who say this is much ado about nothing.
Dragon Armor - their line of pre-finished 1/72 scale armor vehicles - has been around for what? 4 or 5 years now? It’s never been a big deal as far as I know. IMHO, this style of “collectible” is no different than 1/24 scale Nascar diecast cars.
As far as contests go, most contest rules that I’m familiar with (including our own) stipulate that anyone who “knowingly” enters an unauthorized piece of work (pre-finished models) or misrepresents someone else’s work as their own, is subject to immediate expulsion from the event and a life-time ban from further events. If someone wants to risk those penalties for a $10 award…more power to them.
That’s just what I wanted to hear Robert.
In times where anything goes in the name of competition, where fathers pull guns on their son’s football coaches, moms hire hit-men to take out their daughter’s rival cheerleader’s mom and figure skaters get whacked in the knee with a pipe, it’s good to know modeling isn’t going down the same sordid path.
To me, passing off a pre-fab model as your own is akin to taking performance-enhancing drugs in sport. The punishment for doing so should be similar - immediate expulsion from the competition, and life-long ban from any further competition run by the organizer, or any body to which it is afiliated.
A couple of years of such a rule being firmly enforced should nip any such cheating firmly in the bud.
Cheers,
Chris.
Come on people. It’s a company!!! Making money is what they do!!
If they only put out plastic models, and then went bankrupt from lack of revenue, then that would be bad.
All I can say to this is big friggin deal. get over it. if it makes them money, why not?
Who cares about the manufacture and sale of pre-built models? That isn’t the issue. Cans of spray paint aren’t a problem either, but people spraying graffiti everywhere is a problem. It’s not the product, it’s what people choose to do with them. Just about anything can be used in an unethical or illegal manner. All I wanted to know is whether there were rules in place to prevent the unethical use of these items in a contest, thats all. Who said anything bad about the sale of these items?
T26E4 wrote about 21st Century toys “clunkers”. Not fair. Me and my son own some of these and the details are actually pretty good as is some of the weathering. And we can play with these and not have to worry about breaking anything. I like their products. Just adding my two pennies about that.
As far as the prebuilt, why not? If people buy them, well it’s because they wanted them. I buy unbuilt kits, for the same reason. I want them.
-60
Well, they are still models but entering them in a contest as your own is the same as plagiarizing someone elses work.
I have no problem at all with these pre-built models, I’m pritty sure a lot of people would LOVE to have dicent quality models on display but find building to tiddious, or take up too much time (many people don’t have that much free time).
One thing that would make everyone happy is for the companies that make these add a “flaw” of some sort, or something to identify them as prebuilt and require a LOT of work to fix but doesn’t jump out at you. It does’t even have to be a flaw, just something distinctive. Someone who buys these models more then likley won’t notice or care that much.
The best way to get the companies to do this would to have a email/mailing campain saying something like “do this or there will be a lot of upset customers besdies me” .
I think Roy is referring to them with a scale modeler’s eye in terms of detail, scale accuracy, etc. You’re referring to them in the way they look and hold up as toys. I think they are better than anything we had available to use with toy soldiers back in the day, but I don’t think they look as good as even the older 1960-70s scale model kits by Monogram or Tamiya.
Yep. I wasn’t offended or trying to be hostile. But they sure are fun to play with. And realistic random battle damage can be applied with a shotgun blast from about 40 yards away!!
- 60
Yikes! This post went bezerk on me. I guess sometimes it’s best not to state ones feelings. I was being more in jest when I started this thread. All I was pointing out is that Dragon is starting to devel into pre-made 1/35th. It remains to be seen if so-called profits will be diverted to other projects. My only concern, is that 1/35 might go a little to the back burner if Dragon branches out to much. My theory is stick to what got them where they are…1/35th. this is not to say don’t create more market shares for yourself, but overextending can be risky.
I had no idea that this would become a thread about entering contests with pre-made kits, which to my eye, would be so obvious.
What would be so obvious about it? Like I said, (if anyone would actually bother to read it), is that one could take one of these pre-build kits, weather it, bang up the fenders, throw some mud on it…whatever…and call it their own. What about it, other than it’s obvious factory markings, (which could be changed, obliterated, covered…whatever…) is going to make these stand out in a crowd? Are these built up Dragon kits, or sub-standard, toy-like posers? I think we need to see one first hand, especially one that has been doctored-up, before one can dismiss them off hand.
Ever see a counterfeit bill? A forged piece of artwork? A digitally doctored photo? A fake driver’s licence? Dishonest people do crap like this all the time… And not just for financial or personal gain either, maybe they just like cheating, or ruining someone else’s day, or just to be a jerk.
All I’m saying is be aware to the possibility that this could happen. Geez people…