With due respect I think you don’t understand the friendly “Tiger versus Sherman” friendly banter that goes around here. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt for your remark which I really found to be very offensive and insulting. Although your opinion is highly respected, I suggest that you try to observe and assess the situation before making harsh comments against other members.
If you think I am a kind of psycho who likes the sight of people being dead then I tell you “you are wrong”. We are just trying to have some fun around here. And if you haven’t noticed, I never even made references to dead crews…you did.[;)]
If you find the reality of war offensive and insulting, perhaps you should think about it before joking about it. It is true that you never referenced dead crews. The majority of knocked out, and particularly burned Shermans, nonetheless resulted in them. You can’t separate the tank from the crew. It would be a bit like laughing at the Hood, Bismarck, or Arizona without referencing the crews specifically. You cannot separate the warships, planes, and vehicles from the soldiers who operate them. They go hand in hand, the equipment and the men who operate it in combat.
No need to welcome me. I have certainly read this board for a number of months now. I am familar with the banter that goes one here, and am surprised that some people who clearly have researched the subjects, and should therefore be familiar of with the results of combat, could joke about things the way they do. A semi-recent post post the question of whether or not modelling glorifies war. Like the general consensus of that thread, I don’t think it does. However, your’s and similar posts make me believe that it may lead to people not really thinking about what goes into war. Being so focused on the correct tread pattern for such and such a unit at such and such time, that the poor kid who is taking the thing into combat and quite likely dying is forgotten entirely.
A burned out Sherman is a legimate subject with respect to a WWII dio. However, I think I would have focused the joke on the difficulty of accurately building tracks whose rubber blocks have burned out. As opposed to the simple fact that a lot of Shermans burned in comabt, and might be found near to a Tiger. In and of itself, it’s no laughing matter.
As far as lightening up, I sincerely I hope that I never l lighten up to the point where I am joking about about burned out combat vehicles and giving their crews no thoughts at all for their courage and sacrifice.
Abarne, I think you are taking things way to seriously. I doubt there is a member of this forum that thinks dying is a joke. We all have respect for the fallen, our own to that of the enemy. You say you have followed the forums, I think you have missed a lot. I can’t think of a single member that joked of dead or mutilated bodies. There has been a playful exchange between the Tiger and Sherman afectionados here. Never once has a glorification arisen over dead tankers. It’s more of “I like this tank vs that tank”. I assume you have your own reasons, perhaps a family member that was killed in one, I really do not know and foor that I am sorry. I think you need to chill out a bit though and think it through.
Tigerman, perhaps I do take things seriously, but equally perhaps others may not take things seriously enough. While the post to which I originally replied did in fact make no reference to dead tank crewman, it did un-mistakably joke about a Sherman’s propensity for catching fire. A burned out Sherman more often than not resulted in dead crew members. You really cannot separate the tank from the crew.
A burned out Sherman could well be a powerful element to a dio. God knows there were enough of them. I just don’t think it is worth a laugh or perhaps to more properly interpret the written “He-he-he” from the original post, a snicker. Not funny at all.
The simple truth is war sucks. This is not war. This is a hobby. We all have our own opinions about different subject matters. If we let something like this take over the hobby we are all to blame than.
Everyone in this hobby knows what the results were when a Sherman encountered a German Panzer. Most of the members that are in here are or have been in the military.
We are all familiar with the horrors of war. We all have our own ways of dealing with them also. This is a hobby that is ment to be fun and yes sometimes educational.
If something like this bothers you the solution is simple do not particapate in it. Move on to anther type of modelling. The problem is no matter what you decide to build some one has a memory of it in a bad way.
Police cars, officers die…fire trucks, firemen get burned…etc.
Wow so ahhh how do you turn a progress of my tank into a well laughing matter of burned out shermans. All tanks in one way or another got “BURNED OUT” or knocked out. Would it made a differance if it was 6 shermanson the dio and a tiger in the back ground? NO. AHHH forget it.
Glad you like it Dwight I value your thanks and opinions along with the others.[:D]
ABARNE,
i understand your points on the horrors or war, but i believe that you are wrong in ‘interpreting’ Dwight’s comments.
i personally do not extrapolate from damaging/destroying plastic to the pain & suffering of flesh & blood soldiers.
this is the armor forum.
we model scale replicas of military vehicles & weapons.
there are some of us who are proponents of certain machines,
and a subset of that group who are detractors of other machines.
probably a further subset who have no opinion one way or the other,
but enjoy tweaking Robert (Shermanfreak) who, i believe, enjoys the ribbing,
and is happy to point out that his favorite, although ‘inferior’ by many measures,
was an instrument of the victors.
i have not seen much that i would regard as disrespectful to the combatants,
regardless of the flag they fought under, or the aims of the politicians they served.
– tho i know there are some who might be offended by the ‘Klumsy Kraut’ banter
abt another dio recently.
(when is a word a slur, and when is it not? ah, now there is a subject that has nothing to do w/ models either)
in any case, i am certain Dwight meant to do nothing more than razz the hardware.
just like if i were to make a crack abt the Hindenburg.
know what i mean?
anywho, i am glad that you have joined the dialogue here.
new voices are welcome, even when i don’t necessarily agree.
Dwight is one of the most talented and well respected modelers in this forum. His Dios are some of the best work I have ever seen. I have been participating in this forum for over a year now and respect Dwight’s opinion and input. I can tell you whole heartedly he meant nothing by his remark. If you were offended, well, then stop visiting the forum! I will continue to wait with baited breath for pictures of Dwight’s fantastic work
Thundergod: I almost forgot to ask you. Is the bridge where that easy-eight is on part of the dio? If it is… I suggest that you should tone down the color.[;)] or probably construct one out of smaller pieces of wood.[:D].
Tigerman/Ed/mjohnson/Rich: Thanks for the inputs. I appreciate it. It is probably my fault why this issue has been diverted. I should have just let the comment directed to me unanswered. It just seemed unfair how a silly joke could be interpreted in such a very different way. [?]Well, let’s get back to our models and just let our friend be.[:)]
My last post on this. I certainly do not challenge Dwight’s modelling talents. I’m not sure if I can remember anything of his specifically, but I’ve seen a lot of really impressive armor here. The main reason I have for perusing this forum, is indeed to gain model building ideas and techniques for my own project. In retrospect, my original post perhaps came off more harshly than intended, or was at least received as such which effectively amounts to the same thing. Although, I don’t think that that a burned out Sherman, with its likely casuaties, is a worth a laugh or chuckle “He-he-he”, my apologies for conveying the impression that I was suggesting that Dwight would enjoy said casulaties. I would have better stated my point to have suggested that one consider the human aspect of the action before adding the chuckle.
Abarne, we all tend to take things out of context, and I respect your feelings, as I hope you understand ours. Now lets get back to modeling and let us help you on your project. We look forward to future modeling input. A belated welcome.
