New Tamiya 1:350 Battleship Series

Just noticed that Tamiya discontinued the old 1:350 Battleship Series
(78001-78008) and replace them with a new series (78011-78018). The
available information on the new ones are sparse.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/shs05/report/news5.htm

The new New Jersey BB-62 is modernized version while the Missouri BB-63
remains the WW-2 version.

One big surprise is the MSRP. The Missouri jump from $67 to $105, a 50%
increase. Anyone has any info on the new kit’s improvement? PE detailed
parts included? New mold with lots of details? What can we expect from
this hugh price hike?

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/category.php?sub-id=24000

KL

Been reported that the changes are minor if any. Mostly a new box and number.

The new Big MO has a $38 (57%) price increase. A new box and number hardly justify that.

KL

That is garbage in my opinion. Then we wonder why it is so hard to get new people into the hobby.

When I spoke to the Tamiya rep at the IPMS Nationals, he informed me that nothing new had been done to Missouri, New Jersey, Bismarck, or Tirpitz.

I did look at Yamato though, and it appears (at least to me) that the 25mm AA guns and funnel trunkings look alot crisper in detail, so who knows.

Jeff

Apparently Tamiya has been watching Hasagawa’s practices and decided they worked. Bring out a new (or even an old kit), have it on the market for 6 to 8 months, withdraw it from the market for 3 or 4 months, reissue with new decals, new camo guide and new box top. Continue for at least 3 cycles and increase the MSRP 50% to 75% each cycle.

If we are paying aroung $100 for a Trumpeter battleship, that they must think we will pay the same for a Tamiya, which they may need to cover material costs and any retooling / rebuilding of their molds. Its the market price for a 1/350 ship that they are adjusting to.

Scott

Bulk polystyrene prices are less than a US dollar per pound

PRICE
Historical (1995 - 2000): High, $0.60 per pound, bulk cryst., hopper cars frt. alld.; low, $0.33 per pound, same basis. Current: bulk, cryst., hopper cars, frt. alld., $0.43 – 0.45 per pound; impact, same basis, $0.45 – 0.47 per pound; expandable beads, pkging grade, 1,000-lb. lots, same basis, $0.73 – 0.76 per pound.
<<
http://www.the-innovation-group.com/ChemProfiles/Polystyrene.htm

Remember that Tamiya has paid off the tooling costs for the molds to produce these kits. Remember they are at least twenty years old. Tamiya has expended no capital in updating the molds. There are none of the new materials such as photo-etch which are expected add-ins. The only costs which Tamiya has is a new box with perhaps new box art and new instructions. There may be 10 USD worth of materials. How does that justify such a price?

IMO, Tamiya is seeking to maximize their profits by trotting out a tired old kit with a new bow on it. They see ship modelers who are interested in new and unique products, not the tired old products which have been driven into the ground. Let Tamiya do a new innovative kit and I might want to buy one.

Tamiya is not alone in this practice. Revell’s 1:400 scale Enterprise which was sold in the recent past for about 90 USD started its life in the '60s as the Aurora kit. It passed through Aurora to Monogram to Revell. I beieve that the original kit sold for less than 10 dollars ('60s prices). Here again the model maker was seeking to maximize there profits by trotting out an old tired kit dressed in a new box and hoped that no one would notice.

An even more outrageous example comes to mind. The current Revell/Monogram online catalog (the American version - excluding Revell Germany) contains precisely seven ships. One of them is the ancient U.S.S. Missouri, the very first kit Revell produced back in 1953.

My memory doesn’t quite stretch back to the kit’s earliest appearances. (According to the bible on the subject, Dr. Thomas Graham’s Remembering Revell Model Kits, its second incarnation included an electric motor.) I do remember buying one a few years later for $2.00 - quite a bit of money in those days. The current price, according to the website, is over $15.00.

The historical importance of this kit is obvious. By some definitions it was the first plastic ship model kit (though the Strombecker/Lindberg Gato-class submarine makes a similar claim). When Revell designed this kit the underwater hull lines of the Iowa class were still classified. The lower half of the hull has a chunky, rectangular cross-section that has nothing to do with reality. The level of detail can most gently be described as primitive. (20mm guns cast in with the decks, turrets with long mounting pins that are supposed to be flattened with a hot knife, nondescript blobs where radar screens ought to be, etc.) This kit is, by modern standards, about as crude, inaccurate, and generally awful as a ship model can be. It’s also, by all accounts, one of Revell’s all-time best-sellers. The company has long since made back whatever it invested in design, moldmaking, tooling, and everything else. I’m no expert on such things, but my guess is that, beyond the minimal actual cost of the plastic, the paper (for the box and instructions), and the decals, every nickel anybody has paid for a Revell *Iowa-*class battleship during the past twenty years has gone directly into profit for the company.

What’s particularly irksome about this is that so many other - and better - *Iowa-*class kits have appeared under the Revell and Monogram labels over the years. Revell did a 1/720 version just a few years ago; it wasn’t up to Tamiya standard, but at least it had individual 20mm guns. Monogram did a couple of Iowa-class ships during the 70s. (I don’t remember the scale.) Revell/Monogram supposedly has all the old Aurora molds; even the Aurora 1/600 Iowa-class kits were better than this old fossil. And, if I remember correctly, for a while the big Otaki 1/350 kit was being sold under the Monogram label.

When I look at the state of the Revell ship catalog I wonder whether the people responsible for it know anything whatever about ship models. I wonder if any of the people making decisions for the corporation are capable of discerning the difference between that ancient kit and the Tamiya ones - beyond the fact that one is bigger than the other.

If we look at the subject objectively, though, maybe we ought to give these manufacturers some slack. I’m horrified at the pricing structure of plastic kits these days. (I was looking last night at the Minicraft web page, which contains a fascinating series of 1/144 airliners. They cost almost $20 each.) On the other hand, we’re talking about a hobby that’s fundamentally different than it was when that old Revell Missouri first appeared. It’s no longer a hobby for kids. (If the pricing trend continues, the few kids left in the hobby won’t be there long.) During the past twenty years or so adult hobbyists have gotten reconciled to the idea that $20 is not a high price to pay for a decent plastic kit. (There was a time not so long ago when $20 would buy any kit on the market - including the big Revell Cutty Sark.) The prices of plastic kits have risen far more rapidly than the inflation rate.

There’s got to be a fundamental relationship between the price of the kit and the number of units the public will buy. I don’t buy kits nearly as often as I used to; I can’t afford them. I’m not going to pay $100 for a plastic kit unless (a) I’m absolutely certain that I’m going to build it - starting tonight; and (b) it’s going to take me several years to finish it. I don’t think I’m the only modeler whose buying habits have been altered by the increases in prices.

I assume the great brains in charge of companies like Tamiya, Hasegawa, and Revell are trying hard to figure out just where to set their prices in order to achieve an ideal balance of quality, market appeal, and profit. It behooves us to watch them carefully during the next few years. We all hope they won’t seriously compromise quality in order to keep prices down. But if the prices go up much further, customers will stop buying the products in sufficient numbers and the hobby will die.

I’m not competent to make such business decisions. But when I look at the current state of the hobby I really do worry about what it’s going to look like in twenty years. I can see it now: “The latest release from Tamiya: 1/72 scale P-51D Mustang. Features include Merlin engine with moving pistons and functioning carburetor, instrument panel with movable needles on all dials, pilot with fully-functioning relief tube, and 750 individually-molded .50 cal. machine gun cartridges. Kit includes miniature air pump to inflate tires. Parts - 2,468. Price - $1,250.00.”

I think the problem is more in the marketplace than at the companies. Everything said in this thread is right on the money … they are trying to get more money out of the same old kits with repackaging and new stock numbers … but the reason, IMHO, is that not enough people have the patience, talent and interest to sit down and build a high-quality scale model. The reason Revell’s ancient Mighty Mo is such a best-seller is because any schmuck can glue it together and have something to ram Wienie Island in the bathtub or a nice BB gun target after they get tired of it. Our numbers are too few, gentlemen, to make a lot of new toolings an economically feasible proposition for the big companies. That’s why the multi-media folks with resin, brass and lead are turning out the good stuff. They can sell to the uber fans at any price because they have low-production runs and small staff costs. I’ll bet someone out there has numbers of new releases broken down into types of companies and types of models and my gut feeling is that the little guys are turning out the big numbers of new kits.

The complaints about the price increases on old models are valid but the way that you fight them is to not buy these “new” models if they aren’t worth it ! If the Ford Motor Company decided to re sell its 1963 Ford Falcon for $30,000 would you go out and buy one ? Only a fool would .
If we are asked about an old tired outdated model tell the newbies that its a hunk of junk and to pass If the don’t sell the market place will force prices down to where people are willing to pay While I may to much faith in the free market system over time it generally works but if you give in to bad pricing you only encourage it from other companies !!!

With a few notable exceptions folks…

Trumpeter’s ships breaking new ground. Ok, they’re beating the new subject variations to death with 3 versions of Essex (with at least 1 more coming, a long hull), but at least we’re seeing new kits. Some complain that the cost is prohibitive. To many of us, it is. But I look at this way…If I spend $100 on a carrier kit, and say, another $100 on accessories, PE, extra planes, etc., it’s still going to take me 3-4 months of work to complete that model. So $200 divided by 16 weeks is $12.50 a week, or $1.78 a day. That’s pretty cheap entertainment in my book, and I’ve got something to show for it in the end - a model that I can display, compete with, etc.

If you give me something new that’s of the quality I’ve come to expect, then I’m willing to pay the price (within reason). I’ve got the entire series of Tamiya battleships, and I don’t think I’ve paid more than $45 for any single kit in the series. I don’t really care about the flashy box, because it gets filled with sprues and nasty paper towels coated in glue and paint.

I just finished the Hasegawa Mikasa, man, what a beautiful kit. I’ve built the Trumpeter Essex and Hornet, and I have 3 more carriers in the collection, along with all sorts of other models, some old, some new, some expensive, some not.

As a modeler, we have to draw the line somewhere. That limit is different for every one of us.

My two pence,

Jeff

For me it’s a 150$ F-16. Hehe, dragover from a diferent thread there. The Tamiya battleships are very impressive, and I’d be willing to pay 50 dollars for them. But new box, and making it 100 take it out of my price range.

While I agree with what you are saying I think that the biggest mark up is caused by the middle-men…wholesale importers and distributers.

Then again you would have been a fool to buy the Falcon then. It’s a different story if you try that example with a 63 Corvette Stingray Coupe, eh?

HOWEVER, your point is valid, to a point! Expecting a continually higher return on the same old same old is a bit much. This thread only strengthens my conviction that a boat is an expensive hobby!

Here in Japan the Tamiya 1/350 battleships have gone from 5,000 yen (about $45 USD) to 6,500 yen (about $59 USD), an increase of 1,500 yen (about $13.60 USD).

So you see, in Japan, the new price is not that big of an increase, and certainly nowhere near the 50% increase some of you are seeing.
Now, whether or not there are 1,500 yen worth of improvements in these newly packaged kits remains to be seen.

By the way, the ancient Revell 1/350 Missouri sells here for 8,500 yen. That’s about $77 USD.
Talk about your mark-ups…

The retailer usually ‘marks up’ in the region of 100%, so he’ll be buying them in at around $40-$50.

Standard retail markup is 40%…I hate myths.

It’s not really a myth, it just varies depending on product. When I used to work in a hobby shop, the markup was indeed 100% on plastic kits, much less on R/C kits and accessories. When I worked at a Best Buy 10 years ago, it varied. Stereo components and accessories such as phone cables, power strips, etc. were between a 60 and 100% markup. Things like PC’s, though were a 10% markup if even that. CD’s, movies, appliances, all fell somewhere in between.

-Devin

Tamiya may not actually release new kits to compete with Trumpeter, but they don’t want to be seen as cheap, second best alternative to Trmpeter. So if they can not compete on product offering, they will at least create the impression of qualitative parity by charging the same price.

Lots of company who wish to maintain the image of being the premier in quality do this. Even if their products are no longer the best, they will raise the prices so to a causual observer, they still seem to be competing in the same league as the best.