Has anyone seen the previews for this. Looks like this will be a cool show.
Showdown: Air Combat: Military Channel
Chris
YAY! Chino’s Planes of Fame continue to be movie stars! YIPPEE!
Saw it- I was impressed. But first the things wrong with it:
- The present-time narration of an obvious re-enactment is a bit over the top.
- The “dogfighting” done by actual aircraft (not CGI) really amounts to a bit of formation flying (for now- this may change).
But now- the GOOD things.
- ACTUAL PLANES!!
- TECHNICAL EXPLINATIONS!
- PERIOD FOOTAGE!
- COMPETENT NARRATOR!
- ACTUAL PLANES!
- ACTUAL PLANES THAT ACTUALLY FLY!
- ACTUAL PLANES!
Overall, as I said, I was very impressed. A discussion on another forum spoke of the things where the History channel dropped the ball, noteably the cancellation of Dogfights and rise of pointless reality programming. Here comes the Military Channel to fill in the viod. As far as I’m concerned, this is pretty much Dogfights with real aircraft, which is ALWAYS a huge plus.
I’m a fan. [;)][tup]
Haven’t seen it yet, but have been involved in answering a few questions. I see 2 problems. One no one with a vintage fighter like a 109, spitfire or any other will allow it to be flew the way it would need to be flown to gauge it’s true performance. Second there no one left alive in excellent phyical shape that could fly a say a 109 for example to the edge. When the british test the 109 there pilots said I couldn’t turn nearly as well as the spitfire. But in actual combat spitfire pilots said they could outturn the 109 but it took everthing they had to do it. When a reich pilot flew the same 109 he was able to stay with the spitfire though all but the fastest tightest turns. Difference the reich pilot the correct training and hundreds (if not thousands) of hours behind the stick of his aircraft knew how to fly it and learned who to wring every ounce of performance from it. I use the 109 as a example, but this is true for all WWII fighters. If the scifi I mean the history channel done the same level of research as the did with dogfights Most of the tech info will be inaccurate at best.
Remember, though- this is the Miltary channel- NOT the History Channel.
The general consensus is that the History Channel has utterly failed its duty as a- well, HISTORY channel, and is instead a collection of reality shows designed to compete with Discovery.
I still have faith in the Military Channel in regards to accuracy.
As for the actual dogfighting- you think that there’s any chance at all that someone will allow these museum pieces (many one-of-a-kind) to be flown balls-to-walls? No. I’ve only seen one episode (MiG 15 vs. F-86), and as I said before, most of the “dogfighting” is just formation flying. The technical demostrations and hard acrobatics are taken up via CGI.
Overall, it seems they are doing as well as they can with what they are given. To me the joy of this show is not seeing vintage aircraft pushed to their limit- it’s seeing them fly at all.
Of course, just my two cents.
I did not seee this episode yet, but I am going to [:)].
The acccuracy of Military channel shows is … questionable (at least in my opinion). I base my opinion on facts I know andthey were totally wrong in the facts and conclusions. So it may be coincident or … too many Nazis propaganda movies taken as facts by Military Channel journalists [:)].
I wathc them to see real aircrafts andlear about some events, however I do not think those have real historical in dept values.
Examples:
One of the main fact I always look for when tey talk about Blitzkrieg in Poland - All Poilish Air Force was wiped within few hours of the war. Totaly wrong statement.
They never analyzed Luftwaffe loses and compare them to the Polish Air Force Loses. You may be surprised with the numbers. And probobly stunned taking under consideration the class diference in the equipment.
Most do not even know that the one of a most important achievement of Polish Intelligence hleped read Germans communications - Enigma replca and decoding procedures weredelivered to allies just at the beggining of the WWII.
When te Military Channel shows Polish Campaignthey show Polish Cavalry attacking German tanks.
Not much was ever said about Gen. Maczek The Black Brigade which fough very well in Poland and after D-Day in France.
In my opinion Military channel is glorifying German Military machine iand most of theirs opinions are taken from propaganda materials without much investigation.
Anyway, I am watching those shows and I will watch them however I will always keep a filter ON for the conclusions of new generation journalists.
Of course, the Military Channel isn’t perfect. But I, for one, will take some innaccuracies and some blantent tomfoolery (like the “top ten” specials- who comes up with this criteria?) over “Ice Road Truckers” ANY day.
[:)] You got it [:D]. I like also Heavy Metal on History. They show quite nice shots as well.
I know what you mean about the top ten shows, they’re all just popularity contests. Who isn’t going to proclaim the P-51 the best fighter of all time?
However, I do cut the Military Channel a lot of slack because they have to fill 24 hours of programming with military shows. Their recent addition of COPS style shows is interesting, but not sure they belong in there. I miss some of the Discovery Wings specials that used to run back when the channel was new, though.
The History Channel has failed me. I am sick of their dumb reality shows, and I am very agry that they cancelled Dogfights! There was so much more to cover! To be fair, the reality shows they air are interesting, but they’re trying too hard with them. They don’t even back them up with accompanying “Modern Marvels” episodes, which they should do considering that that show is their flagship series. I despise their UFO shows, they have no place on that channel. Also, they have cancelled too many good shows- Deep Sea Detectives, Weird US, and Digging for the Truth just to name a few.
Lucein Harpress DOUGH!! your right my bad military channel, my bad. almost as bad as the history channel. There the people who said the P-47 thunderbolt was the most poduced fighter of WWII[D)]. Yah there almost as bad. I do agree with you, there programming is far better then the history channel. I also agree with the top 10 stuff, what a joke.
Although I have very low confendence in anything on TV nowadays, I will give the show a chance. I have seen that wings of the luftwaffe show while not impressed and not completely accurate did have some good info in it.
Speeking of top 10 show. Based on there rating system the 109 should have seen top dog.
flown by the top 10 highest scoring aces, flown by more aces than any other fighter.
Shot down more aircraft then some eintire airforces have.
The most produced fighter of all time.
flown from before WWII and 20 years after.
operated by 6 different countries.
Even at the end ofthe war could keep pace with the best allied fighters out.
The feared symbol of reich air power and one of the most known aircraft in history.
The only debate I see is which 9 other fighters come after it.
LOL
But see what propaganda can do [:)] … it can change the history [:)]. Someone said once: “if you repeat a lie so many times it become a truth !”.
I think the History channel has a lot of this action [:)] some by negligence some in purpose. You have to figure out what is what.
Unfortunately the WWII has less coverage at school every year … Soon children will know that Auschwitz was a Polish concentration camp and Germans were victims of Polish brutality.
Anyway, it has not much to do with modeling, so lets build those birds !
THey canceled Dogights?!?!? That;s too bad. I watch it on youtube and I really like it.
You are exactly right. If it get said enough it tends to become truth. And there’s a ton of poor info when it comes to WWII germany. The big problem I have is TV shows like those on the history channel tend to reach a bigger broader audance than say books. Becasue it’s the history channel it must be right. I was talking to a civil war guy, the complaint is the same. Not some but most all of the given info is incorrect in some way. they need to do a better job researching and getting there facts right. this seems to be the big complaint from everyone I talk too.
I am afraid the only thing History Channel takes care of is … commercial income with limitted expenses for research. They try to put on air what people like to hear. The truth sometimes may be very bitter.
The show is cool. I will be busy Sundays 10PM EST 
Speaking of errors, I found a big one one in the link to the Military Channel site. Check the Top 10 Aces thing, #2 is Hartmann and it says he had flown 1,400 missions by the time he was shot down and captured by the Russians. I can’t recall that ever happening!
A big reason for the degridation of the History Channel as of late is the management in charge of programming. Apparently, the woman who runs the show sees the Discovery Channel (with its success of such ‘reality’ shows as Deadliest Catch, Mythbusters, Man vs. Wild, etc.) as its main rival and arch-enemy. In Hollywood imitation is often the most lucrative form of flattery, which is why you get such drivel as “Ice Road Truckers”.
Yes, unfortuantely History has seemed to have lost its way.
Programming in general is all about reaching your largest audience possible to earn the most money possible. Unfortunately, staying true to your main intent, and even going so far as to obtain thorough research on your subject matter, comes in second. Sad, but true.
With the bad, however, you also get bits of the good. I really enjoy ‘Wings of the Luftwaffe’ when I catch it during the day. I know a majority of the information presented (factual or not), and that which I’m not sure on and care to explore furthur encourages me to do so. I watch it mainly for the wealth of period footage. I’ve seen quite a bit of US stuff. Germany (especially the “behind the scenes” footage- prototype testing, etc.), not so much. This is why I enjoy it.
With this new show, it’s the aforementioned real aircraft. I have yet to experience an airshow, so seeing actual aircraft doing what they do best (fly) is reason enough for me to watch.
Guy’s I agree with what’s been said here. I find that history has to be “politically correct” as not to offend anyone, to be taught or seen on T.V. What ever happened to: that’s the way it happened or that’s the way it was, right or wrong it happened. You can’t change history!!! You study it and LEARN, the things that worked ,you make or do better. The things that were wrong or bad, you make sure don’t happen again. I think that is a big reason for the decline. The lets forget about it and it will go away thing seems to be the prevelent thinking at this time. It sickens me when I think about all the kids and adults for that matter, in this country that don’t know why we celebrate Memorial Day, or the Fourth of July, they think it’s “we have a barbecue on that day.” It’s truely disgusting!!! [soapbox]Sorry for the rant. Any way did any one watch? Given everything that’s been said it was entertaining for the hour it was on.
Chris
Nah…I don’t have time for all this airplane stuff cause I didn’t want to miss “The Bachelorette”, Dancing with the Stars, and the “Shamwow” infomercial.[:-^]
Jerry
[ROTFL]
I guarantee you Steve Hinton flys the living daylights outta those airplanes. The ones that have weakened main spars are grounded. Such as the A2M. Otherwise the Chino Planes of fame are better than factory new. They are flown REGULARLY by the same dudes. What is missing is turbo charging. They aren’t flown at the high altitudes any longer (no air show crowds up there). And parts for General Electric or Allis Chalmers turbo-super chargers are just about impossible to get parts for. Granted, for the most part they’re not going to be pushing the motors often like each Saturday, but for a few seconds of film that will be archived forever… with modern cinematography, probably a few moments of extreme manifold pressure, possibly… I’d really like to ask my bud that works there about that… Hmmm…